Microstick X & Y deflections unequal
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So I’ve rescued my Cougar from the loft in order to fly the truly wonderful BMS 4.34….
I’d forgotten how “challenging” it can be to set up the little blighter…
Eventually I’ve managed to persuade it to let me assign “Toe Brake Left/Right” to the Microstick axes and retain the settings. In order to get there I had to re-flash firmware, perform a new manual calibration, etc., umpteen times.
However both in flight, and in the CCRP axis viewer, one Microstick axis deflection is significantly greater than the other, meaning that it’s impossible to move the rdr cursors accurately.
Would any of you Cougar experts be able to advise if this is (a) a calibration issue (giving same deflection to X & Y up/down in the calibration routine being jolly difficult!); or (b) a hardware issue (eg one of the Microstick pots is dirty/knackered; or something completely different?
And whether it’s (a), (b) or , could you recommend a fix?
And as always, massive thanks in anticipation of your wisdom!
Alan
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In the thrustmaster ccp are you able get maximum deflection on one microstick axis and keep the other one centred?
What values do you see for max/min deflection, are they the same or very similar for both axes? -
Thanks Sabre, in two words, ‘no’ and ‘no’.
Looking at the CCRP axis viewer, I can get axis YR (not sure if this is X or Y) to full minimum (0000) and at the same time S2 to full maximum (65535); or both at rest at zero deflection (3276); but the other way, YR hardly moves above zero deflection (to 36409) and S2 goes about a third of full deflection (2124). At no time can I get one centred and the other deflected.
I don’t really understand what ‘calibration’ is doing to be honest - that is, applied say to the main joystick, whether you apply lots or little deflection during calibration doesn’t seem to make any difference to the deflection you actually get in game, whereas is seems (but I may be totally wrong) that how you calibrate the Microstick does matter. The problem is that when the manual calibration routine says for example ‘Move the (Microstick) X axis forward’ I’ve actually got no idea (a) which is the X-axis and (b) which way is ‘forward’!!
I should also say that in the past I have had the Microstick X and Y controlling the rdr cursors correctly, but probably more by accident than design…
That help any?
Alan
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Bigfish,
EDIT… Never mind. Your original post is about the Micro Stick.
I have exactly the same issue after replacing my pots with the vipergear ones (https://vipergear.eu/product/vipergear-force-sensor-vfs/), but after talking to redneck he said that is normal. However, once I run the manual calibration in CCP, the aircraft flies norm,ally in BMS. Prior to the calibration it was extremely sluggish in roll, but ok in pitch. I agree the CCP calibration may not look like much, but after you run it, how does the stick seem to react when you look at the in the SETUP/CONFIGURATION section? The CCP calibration tells the software what your left and right limits are for each axis, and then builds that as the envelope for when you fly (full left stick, full nose up etc).
As far as the micro stick, I think that’s a real issue now in Win 10 as there are lots of threads on that… I can’t even get my throttle to be detected.
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Here is my set up.
Hope this helps
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Thanks Sabre, in two words, ‘no’ and ‘no’.
Looking at the CCRP axis viewer, I can get axis YR (not sure if this is X or Y) to full minimum (0000) and at the same time S2 to full maximum (65535); or both at rest at zero deflection (3276); but the other way, YR hardly moves above zero deflection (to 36409) and S2 goes about a third of full deflection (2124). At no time can I get one centred and the other deflected.
I don’t really understand what ‘calibration’ is doing to be honest - that is, applied say to the main joystick, whether you apply lots or little deflection during calibration doesn’t seem to make any difference to the deflection you actually get in game, whereas is seems (but I may be totally wrong) that how you calibrate the Microstick does matter. The problem is that when the manual calibration routine says for example ‘Move the (Microstick) X axis forward’ I’ve actually got no idea (a) which is the X-axis and (b) which way is ‘forward’!!
I should also say that in the past I have had the Microstick X and Y controlling the rdr cursors correctly, but probably more by accident than design…
That help any?
Alan
Hi Big, on my setup(which is default), the ZR axis is for the Microstick X axis(i.e., forward and back). When pressed fully forward(towards your monitor), the ZR should go down to the bottom (MAX near the ZR letters) with a value of 65535. At center(untouched), the value should be half of 65535 which is 32768. Therefore, when pressed back, it should go all the way to the top (MIN on the Cougar viewer) and the value should be 00000. This works fine on my Cougar. Note: If you are moving the Microstick correctly, the ZR text should change from yellow to red and none of the other axis along side the ZR column should move(neither the YR or S2).
My Cougar has a similar problem you mention but on the up and down microstick behavior. On my setup, the YR axis is for the Microstick Y axis (Up and Down). When pressed fully Up, the YR should go up to the top(MIN) with a value of 65535. However, mine stops at 24064 which is about a fourth of the way to MIN. At center(untouched), the value should be half of 65535 which is 32768. This is the case for me. Therefore, when pressed fully down, it should go all the way down (MAX on the Cougar viewer) and the value should be (and is) 00000.
Note: If you are moving the Microstick correctly, the YR text should change from yellow to red and none of the other axis along side the YR column should move(neither the ZR or S2).I too am trying to find a way to fix it.
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Gentlemen, many thanks indeed for your advice, I so appreciate you taking the time.
I’ve re-run the CCRP calibration routine and then checked the outputs both in the CCRP viewer and in DIView, which gives you a much clearer view of both the raw values which the axis is generating, and what output Windows is sending to BMS.
All axes EXCEPT S2 (Microstick X) and YR (Microstick Y) are giving full deflection; the two Microstick axes gave only a fraction of full deflection. When I used the ‘Axis shaping’ function in CCRP and did a ‘set zero’ on both (so there’s no deadzone and a linear response) I could get max S2 + Min YR together, and vv, but I couldn’t get one to deflect on its own while the other stayed centred.
So in game, all you can do is move the cursors diagonally bottom right to top left.
So I still can’t figure, is this a calibration issue, or are my Microstick pots knackered? I note many many posts about knackered Microstick pots. If mine are knackered, then their low output in certain orientations is curiously consistent?
Any thoughts?
Alan
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I have attached the “calibrating the cougar” document in case you don’t have it, together with my calibration file and profile.
Actually, I can’t attach the doc, here is a link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wkl6bNdQOdnIyF0BMTqHDazx_egqLnsb/view?usp=sharingYou can open the file calibration.ccf in notepad or notepad++, it’s just a text file with values like this 0=20828,35810,50548, I have added the text e.g. -Joystick… for clarity.
[Calibration]
0=20828,35810,50548 -Joystick X axis
1=15098,31630,49830 -Joystick Y axis
2=43424,29728,16544 -Microstick X
3=49632,35104,22752 -Microstick Y
4=224,28320,56416 -Throttle
5=57120,28224,0 -Antenna
6=0,29568,57120 -Range
7=64800,46496,25440 -Rudder
8=0,0,0 -Toebrake (x)
9=0,0,0 -Toebrake (y)
AxesStatus=5 -For internal use – relates to hardware attachedI have noticed during calibration that the range values are very sensitive to microstick position, have a look with the viewer and see where the microstick is at maximum and minimum deflection, then try to achieve this position during calibration.
The profile file tmc doesn’t contain any calibration information just the joystick set up, so you can safely load the tmc and see if it makes a difference.
If you want to load my calibration file, make a back up / copy of yours first.Finally, I use Windows 7 not Windows 10.
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Hi Alan,
our posts have crossed, have you wiped the cougar and then reflashed the firmware? -
Sabre, outstanding! I’ll clean the Cougar out and re-start from scratch, using your calibration file, and report back. And yes I found that manual which I’d forgotten all about. I recall it was a feature of all those TM manuals (te exception beig James’ Foxy manual) that they all made your brain hurt! and I never seemed any the wiser after reading them!
Alan -
I can’t help with ccp or foxy however, if you still have issues after trying sabres guide then you might want to try calibrating your ministick axes with DIView
http://www.derekspearedesigns.com/download/DIView.exe
Run the exe, right click the ministick axes and select raw data for each…… note the max and min for each in red, right click and select calibrate, enter your max, centre and mins from the raw (red) data… find centre value by adding max and min then divide by 2.
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Thanks again for your help!
I’ve tried reflashing firmware, recalibrated using CCRP, tried Sabre’s calib file, edited my calib file, used DIView, and the fundamental thing which doesn’t change is that whatever you do to the microstick, BOTH axes - YR and S2 - are activated, and you get opposite deflections. It’s impossible to move one axis without the other, so for example if you move it to give max deflection on the X axis, it simultaneously gives min deflection on the Y axis. Needless to say this is not a recipe for accurate control of your radar cursors!
I have no idea what’s going on! I can’t suppose the Microstick X and Y axes have become mechanically intertwined in some way, and the fact that you can get full deflection from both of them (but in opposite directions at same time) suggests they are still working. In which case its a software issue?
Can’t understand what can be causing this!!
Alan
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can you post some screens of your results in DI view, let us see your numbers etc?
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Sorry for the delay, here’s a shot of DIView showing the Microstick X & Y at opposite deflection. Would any other shots be useful?
This is a typical shot - every time I move the Microstick, it generates two opposite deflections of X and Y.
Alan
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Can you show a screen showing the raw data centred i.e. at rest? probably not important.
Silly question and please excuse my ignorance, however, why are you using the toe brakes for the microstick?
See the last post by Boxer - the behaviour you describe re your microstick certainly sounds as if only one axis is assigned - have you assigned both axes in BMS controllers setup?
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Hi ddoc and thanks for keeping the faith! I’ll post a screenshot tomorrow.
I’m using the toebrakes for the microstick because as I understand it of the limitation to 8 axes for one device ie in this case the whole TM cougar stick+throttle+ pedals, in Windows, so if you want 2 axes for the microstick then you can’t have 2 axes for the toebrakes. So by putting the little crosses in the CCRP graphic against axes 7&8 for microstick x & y, instead of default toebrakes, you then get “left toebrake” and “right toebrake” to show up as options for microstick x & y in the “advanced controllers avionics” part of the BMS UI. Once again I am pushing at the envelope of my ignorance here!
Now I do like the suggestion about an “unassigned” axis though. If somehow say it’s got confused and is seeing only the microstick x axis, whether x or y is moved, that would explain why the same value (although not why in opposite directions) is being output for x and y at the same time?
So maybe I need to clear everything out back to zero and start again - not sure how far back I’d need to go?Alan
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Now that you mention the axis limitation, I do seem to remember there was one, I think my solution was to forego the rudder\toe-brakes not ideal but then it was nearly twenty years ago!
Again, I’m sorry I can’t help with ccp\foxy however, a relatively cheap solution that does away with axis limitations and works straight out the box is to get yourself a TUSBA R2 from Realsimulator.
At roughly 70 euros it does indeed breathe new life into the tqs and it’s usb also.
I hope you can get your issue sorted but if not, at least there is a solution in the TUSBA
http://realsimulator.com/html/tusba.html
Worth a look if all else fails.
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I have a similar if not the same problem. My x axis works fine. However my y axis only deflects down a small amount but up almost fully. I think it has got worse in the last few days with even less down deflection. I have a replacement micro-stick that I might put in. But before I do that, I have a TUSBA due to arrive tomorrow. I’ve always wanted to move to the TUSBA since getting the Warthog controls. With the TUSBA I will be able to disconnect from the Cougar stick and free up some desk space!
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Not sure I can add any more, it is difficult but not impossible to move one axis without the other moving, you have to be very precise. I’ve looked at my results in DiView and I’m not seeing anything.
I looked at the set up in BMS, (I actually had them swapped) but it all works either way.Fundamentally, it looks like the microstick axis may be faulty.
One chap has had success in repairing his microstick by cleaning them with an electrical contacts cleaning spray
There is a youtube video about repairs which might help.
if you are competent with a soldering iron. -
Thanks very much ddoc for your input, I will certainly investigate the TUSBA R2 and for the price it’s probably wort a try, in any case it’s probably time to upgrade the gear and I’m also thinking about a force-sensig conversion. Sabre, thanks for your help too I’m inclined to think you’re right, the microstick has died in some mysterious way. Thanks for the link, I’ll follow that up. Scubapics, if I get it fixed I’ll let you know.
Alan