Warthog Slider as Gear Lever?

[drtbkj]

Good Day,All,
Has anyone had experience with converting the the Warthog Slider lever to work with anything other then an axis? Specifically, is there a way to convert it to a landing gear lever?

[GhastlyTT]

@drtbkj do you use TARGET by chance? I did something similar a while back, but I’ve since moved away from TARGET. https://forum.falcon-bms.com/post/308881
Can prob be done with Joystick Gremlin, too.

[white_fang]

@drtbkj
Well of course, you must “digitalize”? an axis.
This was done with “Foxy” for Cougar sticks. … now there is “Target” software… but I’ve never used it… seems easier maybe , xml scripts with gui.

When you convert an axis to digital , on certain range you “DO” this … and on certain range or above, you DO that , command.

So, essentially you execute a macro , key shortcut … on certain range of an axis.
0 - 100% or 5-95% to give it some slack …

So from 5-45% = “gear down” … one press “g” - if toggle, or direct key shortcut for key down … need to assign in your keys file.

-!!but , it must NOT be a repeatable command!!! (macro) - so “fire once when in position only”

…then from 45-55% = “nothing” … middle position , just becuse you can , not needed … but now you have middle do nothing so it wont produce nothing in this position

… and finally, from 55-95% = “Gear up” , again , set key command in your key file for gearUp callback

Maybe you can even produce a directx buttons with macro , then you don’t need key-macros ,… just assign those dx buttons in your keyfile for gear up/dn callbacks.

I can make you an example for “Foxy/Cougar” … but I’m not sure if you can use it with “Warthog” (Target)
– in principle , it’s the same/similar approach for most programmable sticks

RNG 1 14 FOVUinc FOVUdec -FORCE_MACROS Rem fov+ fov- (zoom)
– that above converts Cougar’s RNG pot to a “TYPE 1” digital axis with 14 positions through all the range from left across middle to right end , so 14 times in one direction and 14 times in other direction , it executes FOV+/-
macros , which are defined in macro file … but as I’ve said you can execute whatever , even DX butons … you name it
-again , Foxy is SPECIAL and Basic , there are 6 types of digital axis, fixed regions, variable regions … you name it , for finer abuse

I “suspect” in Target you can do it gui…
Cheers

[drtbkj]

Hi, Guys, I was successful, sort of. Using TARGET I was able to “band” the slider and now I have my gear lever. However, the “sort-of” is that none of the throttle or throttle base buttons/switches will accept assignments with the a Alternate Launcher.
In the process TARGET " renames" the throttle to “Thrustmaster Virtual Controller”. Both the standard UI and AL list that as a valid controller, and AL lets me set throttle and cursor axis’ normally. Just no buttons/switches.
When I turn the TARGET profile off with GUI, everything goes back to normal, but with no “gear lever”.
I looked at my pc’s controller settings. When the TARGET is running I get “driver error” on the device list, and the throttle buttons show activation but the base ones don’t. When I turn the profile off, the driver error message goes away.
I’m hoping I don’t have to program the entire throttle via TARGET.

[GhastlyTT]

@drtbkj that headache is exactly why I stopped using TARGET. Good luck bud!

[white_fang]

@drtbkj
That’s exactly the point… program the ‘Throttle’ . , but just the gear lever.

After that there’s nothing else that should be needed, not even ‘Target’ running in background.

When ‘stick’ is programmed , flashed the eprom with the script/program, it should run on its own without any software support., exactly Plug’n’Pray

I know there are certain ‘smart’ hardware/software solutions that programming software have to run in background like command descriptor, but I don’t believe TM 'Warthog’sticks (unlike old Logitech or Genius) behave like that.
Even my bloody Cougar is programmed for who knows how long … and there’s nothing I have to do else then just plug it in computer.
You don’t need any TM software installed on PC , not even I/O driver , as its only use is for programming the stick, but not for using the stick with whatever game …cough… sim .

Better check again, I’m no ‘Warthog’ user/owner but I can’t think any other way, that should work.

Cheers

[Robf4]

@white_fang said in Warthog Slider as Gear Lever?:

@drtbkj
That’s exactly the point… program the ‘Throttle’ . , but just the gear lever.

After that there’s nothing else that should be needed, not even ‘Target’ running in background.

When ‘stick’ is programmed , flashed the eprom with the script/program, it should run on its own without any software support., exactly Plug’n’Pray

I know there are certain ‘smart’ hardware/software solutions that programming software have to run in background like command descriptor, but I don’t believe TM 'Warthog’sticks (unlike old Logitech or Genius) behave like that.
Even my bloody Cougar is programmed for who knows how long … and there’s nothing I have to do else then just plug it in computer.
You don’t need any TM software installed on PC , not even I/O driver , as its only use is for programming the stick, but not for using the stick with whatever game …cough… sim .

Better check again, I’m no ‘Warthog’ user/owner but I can’t think any other way, that should work.

Cheers

I don’t believe the TM throttle works like that. I’ve never used it, but I believe the TARGET software takes the input from the throttle and sends your computer what you want (i.e. when it sees the lever move past 50% it would send the key you wanted) rather than anything changing in the throttle itself (i.e. the throttle keeps just sending it’s position from 0-100 and the TARGET software is interpreting that to do what you have it programmed to do). That’s why you’d have to keep running TARGET in the background.

[SOBO-87]

@white_fang said in Warthog Slider as Gear Lever?:

@drtbkj
That’s exactly the point… program the ‘Throttle’ . , but just the gear lever.

After that there’s nothing else that should be needed, not even ‘Target’ running in background.

When ‘stick’ is programmed , flashed the eprom with the script/program, it should run on its own without any software support., exactly Plug’n’Pray

I know there are certain ‘smart’ hardware/software solutions that programming software have to run in background like command descriptor, but I don’t believe TM 'Warthog’sticks (unlike old Logitech or Genius) behave like that.
Even my bloody Cougar is programmed for who knows how long … and there’s nothing I have to do else then just plug it in computer.
You don’t need any TM software installed on PC , not even I/O driver , as its only use is for programming the stick, but not for using the stick with whatever game …cough… sim .

Better check again, I’m no ‘Warthog’ user/owner but I can’t think any other way, that should work.

Cheers

TARGET is not actually programming or flashing the hardware in any way, its simply a profiler, or a layer of software between the hardware and what windows sees, If that makes sense. It takes inputs from the hardware and and spits them out to the computer as whatever you have programmed. Which is why it needs to be running to work, and yes its also why you need to program the entire throttle as currently TARGET doesn’t know what to do with the inputs its getting from the hardware. Annoying I know.

[drtbkj]

@white_fang said in Warthog Slider as Gear Lever?:

@drtbkj
That’s exactly the point… program the ‘Throttle’ . , but just the gear lever.

After that there’s nothing else that should be needed, not even ‘Target’ running in background.

When ‘stick’ is programmed , flashed the eprom with the script/program, it should run on its own without any software support., exactly Plug’n’Pray

I know there are certain ‘smart’ hardware/software solutions that programming software have to run in background like command descriptor, but I don’t believe TM 'Warthog’sticks (unlike old Logitech or Genius) behave like that.
Even my bloody Cougar is programmed for who knows how long … and there’s nothing I have to do else then just plug it in computer.
You don’t need any TM software installed on PC , not even I/O driver , as its only use is for programming the stick, but not for using the stick with whatever game …cough… sim .

Better check again, I’m no ‘Warthog’ user/owner but I can’t think any other way, that should work.

Cheers

My past experience with Saitek was the same as your Cougar. I used to “band” the microstick as my airbrake. I just programmed that in SST ,closed SST,and did the rest in AL. The Warthog isn’t like that.
I can see what Sobo is saying about TARGET " adding another layer". I don’t have a problem with that. The part that’s weird for me is that AL,and the UI,sees it as “Thrustmaster Virtual Controller” when TARGET is running, and “HOTAS-throttle” when it’s off. So, AL seems to be seeing the TARGET profile. As I mentioned previously, it even lets me set axis’, just no buttons

[Frederf]

I have this kind of thing on almost every single TARGET script for aircraft with retractable gear: KeyAxis(&Throttle, THR_FC, 0, AXMAP2(3, DX1, 0, DX30));
TARGET takes your normal device/devices and disconnects them logically, replacing them with a virtual controller that the script programs. The script when run hides the non-excluded natural controllers and unhides the virtual controller. Windows 10 sometimes has an issue with a program (especially not admin rights) adjusting devices as that’s a security risk. I have occasional issues but for the most part works fine.

Then you bind the buttons 1 and 30 to gear up and down (or down and up) and you have a three position gear handle. The middle position is nice because you can leave it there and it won’t do either in case of an air or ground start.

[white_fang]

@drtbkj
Well, damn,. Then I cannot help I’m afraid.
Yeah, it seems days of programming/flashing the eeprom are past gone now.
…, teh $$$ profit of hw designs not including eeproms is new standard now … meh…
Hardware inside are less but stick costs more…
I ain’t selling my Cougar for (black) gold. !!
@Frederf has a solution , seems legit , the similar what I’ve said would be in example for Cougar

Good luck brother drtbkj

[drtbkj]

@frederf said in Warthog Slider as Gear Lever?:

I have this kind of thing on almost every single TARGET script for aircraft with retractable gear: KeyAxis(&Throttle, THR_FC, 0, AXMAP2(3, DX1, 0, DX30));
TARGET takes your normal device/devices and disconnects them logically, replacing them with a virtual controller that the script programs. The script when run hides the non-excluded natural controllers and unhides the virtual controller. Windows 10 sometimes has an issue with a program (especially not admin rights) adjusting devices as that’s a security risk. I have occasional issues but for the most part works fine.

Then you bind the buttons 1 and 30 to gear up and down (or down and up) and you have a three position gear handle. The middle position is nice because you can leave it there and it won’t do either in case of an air or ground start.

Hi, Frederf, If I understand this correctly, it sounds like what I want to do, which is to make the slider a 2 posit DX switch. Please check my procedure

1. When I saw what you entered above, it looked to me like something that would go in a Config file. I looked in the TARGET GUI for such a place and found “view script” in the axis part of TARGET. I replaced the stock KeyAxis(&Throttle, THR_FC, 0, AXMAP2( LIST( 0, 39, 69 ), with what you wrote above.
2. I went into the Virtual keyboard and saved the DX 1 and 30 commands to the events
3. I tried this with the THRFC axis at the stock Dx_Slider_ Axis and at “none”
   In all cases I see the same results. The “Gear Handle” works but the other switches do not.
   Either I’m doing something wrong, or we’re back to what Sobo wrote: TARGET overrides AL and UI . And because of that , the only way this will work is if I program the entire throttle/base with TARGET. Do you concur with that?

[Frederf]

@drtbkj said in Warthog Slider as Gear Lever?:

@frederf said in Warthog Slider as Gear Lever?:

I have this kind of thing on almost every single TARGET script for aircraft with retractable gear: KeyAxis(&Throttle, THR_FC, 0, AXMAP2(3, DX1, 0, DX30));
TARGET takes your normal device/devices and disconnects them logically, replacing them with a virtual controller that the script programs. The script when run hides the non-excluded natural controllers and unhides the virtual controller. Windows 10 sometimes has an issue with a program (especially not admin rights) adjusting devices as that’s a security risk. I have occasional issues but for the most part works fine.

Then you bind the buttons 1 and 30 to gear up and down (or down and up) and you have a three position gear handle. The middle position is nice because you can leave it there and it won’t do either in case of an air or ground start.

Hi, Frederf, If I understand this correctly, it sounds like what I want to do, which is to make the slider a 2 posit DX switch. Please check my procedure

1. When I saw what you entered above, it looked to me like something that would go in a Config file. I looked in the TARGET GUI for such a place and found “view script” in the axis part of TARGET. I replaced the stock KeyAxis(&Throttle, THR_FC, 0, AXMAP2( LIST( 0, 39, 69 ), with what you wrote above.
2. I went into the Virtual keyboard and saved the DX 1 and 30 commands to the events
3. I tried this with the THRFC axis at the stock Dx_Slider_ Axis and at “none”
   In all cases I see the same results. The “Gear Handle” works but the other switches do not.
   Either I’m doing something wrong, or we’re back to what Sobo wrote: TARGET overrides AL and UI . And because of that , the only way this will work is if I program the entire throttle/base with TARGET. Do you concur with that?

You possibly goofed the .tmc file that the GUI creates. The GUI is just a pretty interface to write a script file for you. Both TARGET GUI and TARGET Script Editor are TARGET. Once the script is generated/written and run there is no difference between GUI and hand-written script as far as other software is concerned.

Then input-output chain goes like this: Joystick hardware -> logical controller -> Falcon configuration files -> F-16

Without TARGET in use the hardware and logical controller are fixed. You press trigger, button 1 comes out; can’t change it. TARGET virtual controller is an entirely separate logical controller from the game’s point of view. Running the script “unplugs” the logical controller and “plugs in” the virtual logical controller which is why you hear the USB plugging noises when you run a script. From a game’s perspective this is indistinguishable from unplugging one real piece of hardware and plugging in a different real piece of hardware. If Falcon is configured to use the normal Warthog controller and you change to the TARGET virtual controller you have to start all over.

Changing the TARGET script changes how the logical controller acts depending on the hardware input. (TBC)