GP bomb precisely miss target
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<p><img class=“ql-image” src=“https://i.imgur.com/vUlqFOm.jpg” /><img class=“ql-image” src=“https://i.imgur.com/c6RRXqV.jpg” /><br /><br />i test mk-82 & 84, CCRP with TGP, i tried different fly direction, wind direction, target, altitude, speed, i tried to fly as stable as possible, <br />it seems GP bomb hit the same position very precisely…in front of target, about 100 feet. it never hit the target.<br />is this a planned error, to distinguish mk-84 from gbu-10?<br />or is it a bug?<br /><br />i test again in 4.34, it is more accurate than 4.35.3</p>
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<p>@Gear5<br />Wow, that’s what I call a well-documented unexpected behavior.<br />I don’t know the ultimate answer… so please consider everything I write as a brainstorming.<br /><br />Can you confirm that you have your QNH set correctly in the altimeter?<br />For a perfect fire solution, the bomb needs to know your exact altitude.<br />Maybe an incorrect set QNH makes the bomb think you are flying higher than you are actually.<br /><br />Are you dropping single bombs only?<br /><s>Keep in mind, for instance, if you are experimenting with ripples, then half of the bombs will impact BEFORE your aim, and half of the boms will impact AFTER your aim.</s><br /><s>Especially if you drop an </s><em><s>even </s></em><s>number of bombs, you will actually have to be aiming on an empty spot BETWEEN your targets.</s><br /><strong>!!! EDIT !!! This procedure is valid for CCIP only. Clarified below by </strong><a href=“https://forum.falcon-bms.com/user/quasi_stellar” target=“_blank”><strong>Quasi_Stellar</strong></a><strong> - thanks a lot! </strong><br /><br />You say you are only experiencing this glitch with TGP targeting?<br />Do you hit the targets if you lock them up with FCR?<br />And do you miss in CCIP mode as well?<br /><br />A little voice in my head wants to tell me it has something to do with incorrect altitude measurement.<br />I am curious what the real reason is.<br />Good luck!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /></p>
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<p>@Amadeus75 for clarification, what you described is for CCIP release. The impact will be the center of the ripple. CCRP should be the head of the bomb train, ie where to begin releasing the ripple. It is curious with them falling short, though. Maybe wait to run the experiment in 4.36 soon. </p>
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<p>Not sure 4.36 will be 100% better on that…<br />Investigation will be done by the team I the near future…</p>
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<p>@Amadeus75 how can i know QNH of enemy territory? it can’t be 2992, right? for increasing accuracy, i fly and test from 3000 to 10000 AGL.<br />locking with FCR is no luck neither. Or even no lock at all, just precise STPT on target, same result.<br />i didn’t test CCIP yet.<br />and finally, 4.34 is more accurate than 4.35, so it is something planned to be, or it is a bug.<br /></p>
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<p>i just reinstall the game, the issue is still there.<br /><br />@Amadeus75 maybe u r right, by increasing QNH to max – 3120, the crater move closer to target, maybe 50 feet.<br />but i can’t be 100% sure. it is still some distance.</p>
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<p>What about Radar altimeter should that be active?<br />Then QNH should not matter</p>
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<p>@Quasi_Stellar <br />Thanks a lot for your correction! I made an edit in my post.</p>
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<blockquote>@Amadeus75 how can i know QNH of enemy territory?</blockquote><p>Good point. I hope someone has the answer.<br /><br /></p><blockquote><a href=“https://forum.falcon-bms.com/uid/1575” target=“_blank”>@Amadeus75</a> maybe u r right, by increasing QNH to max – 3120, the crater move closer to target, maybe 50 feet.</blockquote><p>Interesting! <br />If I, by chance, happened to be right, then it was just a lucky moment… I was just guessing.<br />I will definitely follow this thread - highly interested.<br /></p>
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<p>Above 14.000 the altimeter should be set to Standard (2992). What is your altitude when dropping the bombs ?</p>
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<p>Interesting thread. Seems CCRP could have 2 sources of error … (1) the precise elevation of the target steerpoint (esp. if it was preplanned) … and (2) the barometric altitude calibration <br /><br />Also, headwind or tailwind at various altitudes… but that would affect CCIP and DTOS as well as CCRP.<br /><br />Are errors (1) and (2) reduced, if you use TGP or FCR to establish a target steerpoint? (ie. precise range and slant angle, relative to the plane’s current indicated alittude)</p>
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<p>Before calling a bug the system needs to be setup properly <br /><br />In BARO , the system takes into account the altitude of the current selected waypoint as ground elevation <br /><br />If there is a difference between this elevation setup and the target elevation , CCRP will miss <br /><br /><br />If you don’t know precisely the target elevation then you’d better try RADAR altimeter setting <br /><br />Else CCIP with AGR ranging<br /><br />using TGP should solve the problem however I can’t remember if I fixed this in 4.36 or 4.35 <br /><br />powsibly 4.36 <br /><br />however , as been said there is a reason why LGB have been développed. You can’t expect precision bombin in CCRP with dumb bombs there far too many errors build in the system and bomb trajectory<br /><br />4.35 introduced all those errors and that’s why 4.34 was possible <br /><br />it’s much closer to real now<br /><br />precision bombing requires guided munitions or CCIP <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /></p>
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<blockquote>Above 14.000 the altimeter should be set to Standard (2992). What is your altitude when dropping the bombs ?</blockquote><p>i test from 3000 to 10000 AGL.<br />if it is a altimeter issue, what should i do? 3120 is max, still i can’t get a bullseye, then tune it to 3300?<br />and finally, if i tuned it to 3300, the altimeter readout would be…?</p>
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<p>@Mav-jp i m not sure i understand u clearly.<br />do u mean i have to do sth different from old version(432-434) to get a hit? what would it be?<br /><br />yes i can accept that mk-84 not as precise as gbu-10. but i wish it does not hit the SAME POSITION every time, it behave like a gbu now.<br />i hope the craters are spread randomly around the target.<br /><br /><br /><br /></p>
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<blockquote>@Mav-jp i m not sure i understand u clearly.<br />do u mean i have to do sth different from old version(432-434) to get a hit? what would it be?<br /><br />yes i can accept that mk-84 not as precise as gbu-10. but i wish it does not hit the SAME POSITION every time, it behave like a gbu now.<br />i hope the craters are spread randomly around the target.<br /><br /><br /></blockquote><p>the FCC is calculating the release point based on elevation setup in the system<br /><br />the elevation in the system is the one that is entered at every steerpoint.<br /><br />if your target elevation is not the same as your system elevation then the calculated point of impact and this release point is wrong<br /><br />this has been introduced in 4.35 and is as real as it gets <br /><br />designating with a TGP brings more accuracy though <br /><br />if you don’t know your target elevation you can use RADAR sensor <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /></p>
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<p>@Mav-jp Consider this to modeling of the aiming accuracy and dispersion modeling. :)<br /><br />It would be great to modeling these very fundamental things.</p>
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<p>@Mav-jp <br /><br />A few questions please:<br /><br />If you designate with the FCR only in mountaneous terrain you will likely miss with CCRP, unless your steerpoint is right on top of the target. You mention the RADAR sensor, how would you use the RADAR sensor to fix that?<br /><br />Also, if you designate with the FCR in GM, set a markpoint for the FCR and make that markpoint the active steerpoint, would that fix the FCR issue?<br /><br />Thanks,<br />JayB</p>
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<p>@Gear5 <br />Good morning, dear mate.<br />Interesting topic and mark, this yours. Thanks a lot for sharing this experience, as first.<br /><br />After this, would you explain to me why did you attempt to launch non-guided weapons with the TGP aid?<br />Was it to keep a visual track of their gliding path, perhaps, as I would tend to suppose?<br />Second. GP bombs - a clear WW1 and WW2 heritage - are not famous to be a precision weapon, a need shown clear for its first time (if I am not wrong on this, of course) in the Vietnam conflict when Phantoms have been tasked to bomb a famous strategic bridge near Hanoi, a target hard to be destroyed.<br />This just to point out that also the refining hitting radius settings in SMS can leave the results “as is expected to be” at the end.<br /><br />And we are still so lucky because all bombs are currently predicted to work perfectly in BMS - no assembly nor fuzes malfunctioning errors, I mean. It should be a great fun time, otherwise. <br /><br />More or less.<br /><br />With best regards.<br /></p>
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<p>@Mav-jp <br /><img class=“ql-image” src=“https://i.imgur.com/DdGAWxp.jpg” /><br /><br />is this what u r talking about?<br />what should i do next?</p>
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<blockquote>@Gear5 <br />After this, would you explain to me why did you attempt to launch non-guided weapons with the TGP aid?</blockquote><p>i made a few run, it nerver hit, so i try every method i know to get a precise lock. but all fail. <br /></p><blockquote>Second. GP bombs - a clear WW1 and WW2 heritage - are not famous to be a precision weapon, <br />With best regards.</blockquote><p>yes i can accept that mk-84 not as precise as gbu-10. but i wish it does not hit the SAME POSITION every time, it behave like a gbu now.<br />i hope the craters are spread randomly around the target.<br />this is why the title said “precisely miss”.</p>