Suggestion for database, data supply
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they are turn rate tables??? Performance?
page 49 title says: turn - banking
page 50
Figure 3 · Overload steady-bends, the plane with two 2hR-73 xp-27, with 50% residual fuel from the normal fill under standard conditions of temperature, operating mode, the engine Maxima (for the other masspage 51
Figure 4, steady-state overload bends, the plane with two 2hR-73 xp-27, with b0% residualFuel from the normal charging, the standard conditions of temperature regime
POLHYi FORSAZh engines (for other mass PCF = T1u ust.vir, R0000)
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For FM and thrust tweaking you need comprehensive data. You can have any curves if they have not connection and shows only very specific situations. I can ask a guy for translate. It is a pure luck, but on HTKA.hu appeared a Russian guy, who perfectly speaks Hungarian.
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well we can do it our self also I believe. A guy that knows what u want can tell it’s the chart in page xx and than we can translate them even with google… Sure a person witch speaks Russian is better I believe.
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I was just funny the current situation, when I uploaded the modified FM https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7259-Changes-in-the-flight-model nobody was looking, and charts on which changes were made, too, no one was looking.
And the links that I gave, too, were not looking https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7259-Changes-in-the-flight-model&p=88539&viewfull=1#post88539 .
But all the criticized the.
To make the the FM Su-27, you need someone who good understanding in aerodynamics. -
@OSD:
I was just funny the current situation, when I uploaded the modified FM https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7259-Changes-in-the-flight-model nobody was looking, and charts on which changes were made, too, no one was looking.
And the links that I gave, too, were not looking https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7259-Changes-in-the-flight-model&p=88539&viewfull=1#post88539 .
But all the criticized the.
To make the the FM Su-27, you need someone who good understanding in aerodynamics.Because I can’t speak Russian I can’t validate FM changes, I can’t interprete the diagrams.
Did you set thrust exactly as in the two charts? What did you set for idle throttle?
I can fly if you wish but I can’t judge.It would be great if you post your models result and original model. I mean, measured performance in the same situations to see the difference. This is what I did with SAMs. Compare with RL diagram your results. Because I cannon understand Russian I do not know which diagram should be reproduced by BMS4.
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If the aircraft and the engine produced in Russia is not surprising that all the primary sources in the Russian
All of the diagrams on the engine can be found here Al-31F http://1.airwar.z8.ru/bibl/al-31.zip
main, page 37, 40, 42To make the trajectory FM Su-27 requires the following charts and tables
Other charts for correction
Читал и рыдал просто, специалисты инженеры блин.
Больше разжевывать не буду. -
I know where they found. I understand the trust curves. Other curvers are the problem. I did not asked to link what I know.
I aksed to show the performance of current model and your model comparing to a RL reference. This can be te way (?) to convince devs. This is why I opened this thread. I compared my models in same or almost the same situations as was made in RL test.
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All the documents were within the archive
And for specialists references to the abstract video does not need
How does the FM in Falcone, I wrote especially for those who do not know how it works. -
@OSD:
I was just funny the current situation, when I uploaded the modified FM https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7259-Changes-in-the-flight-model nobody was looking, and charts on which changes were made, too, no one was looking.
And the links that I gave, too, were not looking https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7259-Changes-in-the-flight-model&p=88539&viewfull=1#post88539 .
But all the criticized the.
To make the the FM Su-27, you need someone who good understanding in aerodynamics.Sorry m8 I forgot the thread and just responded to this one…
LOL we reinvented the wheel…Mav-jp is our man… Start licking him…
Please please…
We have f-16.
I’m sure M2k guys must be pushing for their FM… Also Mav is French so I’m sure he has something on the works… lol
F-18 is on the works if and a SU-27 will be close to real than we don’t want anything else… we can die in peace…
Of course Mav will die first after all those works… But I’m sure that he will give us the finger if u know what I mean… lol -
Yo still do not understand me. My charts and diagrams shows even a non dev, that model is better. RL and sim characteristics are closer to each other. Very simple.
You linked many stuff that most of person did nto understand, because they are written in Russian. So how can be veryied your model even I have intention to reproduce the profiles? Pls. translate them.Not only a dev, but also a user should see why is better your model. Posting n+1 charct and a dat file is not too convincible. RESULT what is very important to SEE the difference. Can we see the difference after your updated post? No.
Can we see what did you changed in the FM? No. I was advised to give a more deatiled explanation why was XY thing changed, what was changed and how was changed. -
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7230&d=1329304632
And google translation:
limitations cause
A. Maximum speed and flight number Μ
- V = 1400 km / h Mode is not limited by time. _ On the strength.
-Μ = 2,35. If Μ = 2,15 - 2,35 no more than 5 minutes. Glazing lantern.
Two. Maximum operating load at design gross weight of 21,400 kg
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Pu max = 8.0 for M <0.85 On the strength.
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Pu max = 6.5 for 0.85 <m <1.25=“” on=“” the=“” strength.<br=“”>- Pu max = 7.0 for M> 1.25 On the strength.
For weights that differ from the estimated gross weight, overload is set at the rate of
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M * Pu max = const = 171 000 kg for M <0.85, but not more than Pu = 9.0
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M * Pu max = const = 139 000 kg 0.85 <m <1.25,=“” but=“” not=“” more=“” than=“” pu=“7.0<br”>- W * Pu max = const = 150 000 kg for M> 1.25, but not more than Pu = 7.5 _
Three. The minimum negative overload
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Pu min = -2.0 for M <0.85 On the strength.
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Pu, min = -1.0 for M> 0.85 On the strength.
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Pu min = -0.5 for V <300 km / h to avoid falling into a tailspin
4. The minimum level flight speed - 200 km / h At an altitude of 6,000 m - 300 km / h From the condition of stability and control STI
Five. Valid angles of attackA) For airplanes with no suspensions or SD For stability and control in the military-industrial complex.
Μ 0,5 0,6 0,7 0,8 0,9 1,0 2,0
ALM 24 ° 23 * 22 ° 20 '19 ° 18 ° 8 °B) To bomber aircraft by means of destruction and the LDCs: For stability and control in the military-industrial complex.
Μ 0,6 0,7 0,85
ALM 20 ° 18 ° 15 °WARNING: During takeoff - landing configuration (landing gear) α ^ = 20 "At the touch on landing 0 = 16 °. Across the gap from the tail to the runway.</m></m>
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And google translation:
Yeah right Arty, it was translated by YOU, I always knew you were a Rooskie.:D
RAM22
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:munch:
Unless someone (who has a good understanding of how the exe interputes the data) does a full on AFM we are still hamstrung.
And even then a non F-16 AFM might not be possable.
Just my 20.5343 cents worth……Shad
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https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7231&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1329304660
To ensure good maneuverability characteristics of all admissible
range of angles of attack at subsonic flight speeds introduced a system of automatic control of the wing and flaperons socks at the signal angle of attack. With increasing angle of attack characteristics of the lateral stability and control remain satisfactory. up additional α
At speeds less than 400 km / h and α> 24 ° the plane has a low shear handling the derivation of the roll at speeds less than 400 km / h during the maneuvers along the border OΠP operation can throw over the angle of attack α additional
Therefore, the derivation of the bank to control the angle of attack, preventing excess
additional α
At angles of attack α> 28 ° up to the controllability of the aircraft does not stall aerodynamic buffeting occurs at angles of attack a = 9 ° -5 ° at M = 0.5-0,9 respectively. With increasing angle of attack increases the intensity of shaking and a Δα = 2 ° -3 ° is stabilized
The nature of the soft bumps in the entire range of angles of attack shaking piloting difficult and not a sign warning of the approach to the extra α can not serve
When disabled, and a failed control system toes wing flying is safe and has no features additional to α = 10 °
The behavior of the aircraft have been rejected on the toes of 30 ° (landing gear retracted, removed flaperons) has no singularities. Denial Management socks and flaperons at subsonic speeds does not cause the aircraft evolutions requiring the intervention of the pilot maximum increment of the congestion at the same time ΔΠχ ~ 0.5 The available angular speed of the roll by increasing the angle of attack decreases, but remains sufficient to additional α (20 ° / sec) The effectiveness of cross- control in horizontal flight provides the angular velocity of roll ωx> = 1,5 ° / sec
On takeoff and landing with the released of the wing and landing gear
Characteristics of stability and controllability of the aircraft without the suspension, and with all versions of missiles remain acceptable to the angle of attack |
a) For airplanes with no suspensions or SD ___
Μ 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.8 0.9 1.0
α π yes 24 23 22 20 19 18
Su FRA 1.85 1.7 1.58 1.45 1.3 1.2b) For airplanes with ABS Π up to 4000 kg, or HP
Μ 0.5 0.7 0,85
α ext 20 18 16
Suu additional 1.61 05.01 1.35The dependence of α marc-f (M, Η) (within the constraints πo α ext. Φmarc = 20 ° and Πy3) and subah = f (α M) are shown in Fig. 4 and 5
спасибо
Spashiba… lol -
@RAM22:
Yeah right Arty, it was translated by YOU, I always knew you were a Rooskie.:D
RAM22
Спасибо товарищу
lol -
NYET, COMRADE:D
You’re welcome.;)
RAM22
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Wow i think I understood some of that,
But lost you after “To ensure good maneuverability characteristics of all admissible”
Cheers……
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https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7232&d=1329304682
Guide pο aircraft flight manual of the Su-27SK
Restrictions:
green line α extra - for an airplane with no suspensions or SD.
blue line φmarc = -20
black line ny3marc AT T m = 21.4
red line α for the additional aircraft with PSIA to 4000 kg or with Hp
In Fig. 4. The maximum allowable angle of attack depending on the number of M.
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https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7233&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1329304697
In Fig. Five. Balancing the lift coefficient as a function of the angle of attack (flight test).
Арчер два JDAMS заголовком свой путь … LOL
So I’m at work now… I believe till I get home in 3 hours the update will be ready… Also I believe the Cobra maneuver must be just perfect…
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https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7228&d=1329304602
Figure 3 · Overload steady-bends, the plane with 2hR-73 * 2hR-27, with 50% residual fuel from the normal charging, the standard conditions of temperature, operating mode, the engine MAKSLMAL (for another mass nuf = n for a century. Sup. 20,000 )
MF