New flightstick wanted (<100€)
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My nine year old Fox 2 Pro Shock (T.Flight Stick X with less buttons and force feedback) is still adequate for most tasks in BMS with the exception of air-to-air refueling. The throttle axis is so worn out that I have a really hard time matching speeds (along with other quirks*) and while I can keep the tanker’s attitude with the two-finger method on the stick, it’s just not really…fun.
So I’m considering a replacement.*When I cut the throttle, I need to wiggle the slider a bit to make BMS recognize the zero position.
A market analysis didn’t yield a perfect candidate yet, so I need a bit of help. My budgetary limit is about 100€, but I’d of course settle for less.
Saitek X52
I’m putting this one first because you people are guaranteed to suggest it anyway. The X52 retails at 110€ at the moment and is pretty much a logical choice for BMS with its functionality.
However, I have a hard time warming up to owning one. It’s ugly, has totally unnecessary features like the LCD and LEDs and from what’ve read the spring seems to be quite weak and there seem to be quality issues here and there.
How’s performance after a few years of (constant) use?Thrustmaster HOTAS X
This one is attractive because it only costs 45€. It doesn’t offer as many buttons and switches as the X52, but it seems to do the job. I am, however, concerned about precision and longevity. Any experience there?
Thrustmaster 16000M + Saitek Throttle Quadrant
The combo would retail for 95€ (40+55€). Not really functional, but I’d have two independent components, one of which can easily be replaced any time. The 16000M is said to be very precise and I guess this also applies to the throttle quadrant (which I’d also use in FSX). Any experiences with that combo?
Defender Cobra M5
This one’s a bit of a mystery. It retails for around 70€, apparently is very solid, precise and offers some amount functionality. The disadvantage is that it only has a small throttle wheel.
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I can help with the HOTAS X.
As for longevity, the thing is almost unbreakable. Very sturdy.
As for precision, the stick is reasonably good, especially if you take its price into account, but if you’re looking for a really precise throttle for air refueling and close formation that’s not what you’ll get. It can do the job, but it will involve a bigger effort than with more expensive sets.The 16000M stick is very precise indeed. I can’t tell about its longevity though.
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If it were me, I’d get a CH Fighterstick (not sure how many Euro), then get a Pro Throttle later when budget allowed.
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I’ve checked the price development for the sticks and the X52 and 16000M are holding up fairly well. Demand has driven up the price for the HOTAS X by about 10€ in the last few months while the Cobra M5 basically sells for a really inflated price at the moment. Maybe I should wait till January and hope that prices fall again.
I can help with the HOTAS X.
As for longevity, the thing is almost unbreakable. Very sturdy.
So probably on par with my current stick. I am still mildly surprised that it still holds up this well and to be honest, I think most of the wear on the throttle slider was due to me modding it at one point to tighten it up a bit. Must’ve put a bit too much mechanical strain on the potentiometer.
As for precision, the stick is reasonably good, especially if you take its price into account, but if you’re looking for a really precise throttle for air refueling and close formation that’s not what you’ll get. It can do the job, but it will involve a bigger effort than with more expensive sets.
Have you tried formations and refueling with the HOTAS X?
I’m not saying that these tasks are absolutely essential for me (as you only fly as lead and never refuel in campaigns anyway), but you may never know how much precision you will need for future applications.The 16000M stick is very precise indeed. I can’t tell about its longevity though.
Darn. Thanks anyways though.
If it were me, I’d get a CH Fighterstick (not sure how many Euro), then get a Pro Throttle later when budget allowed.
The throttle is the most broken thing about my flightstick, so I’d have to do it the other way around.
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Have you tried formations and refueling with the HOTAS X?
Yep, quite a few times.
It’s still doable, with work, but clearly more difficult than with a “simple” X52, for instance. -
The throttle is the most broken thing about my flightstick, so I’d have to do it the other way around.
The Fighterstick actually has a built in throttle that’s reasonably usable.
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Yep, quite a few times.
It’s still doable, with work, but clearly more difficult than with a “simple” X52, for instance.Does the 50% detent get in the way during operations?
The Fighterstick actually has a built in throttle that’s reasonably usable.
Just checked. The Fighterstick/Combatstick retails for at least 150€ in my country new and E-Bay doesn’t have any usable offers for it (short of an expensive import), so it’s not that much of an option.
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Does the 50% detent get in the way during operations?
That’s the main problem with the throttle for close formations and air refuelling indeed (it’s not really a problem when you’re doing neither though). The secondary problem for these activities is that the throttle may deserve a bit more accuracy too.
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I’m leaning towards the 16000M at the moment and then try to use my present stick’s Y axis as a throttle control until I can find a better solution. The alleged quality control issues on the X52 do not leave the best impression and the HOTAS X, well…
That’s the main problem with the throttle for close formations and air refuelling indeed (it’s not really a problem when you’re doing neither though). The secondary problem for these activities is that the throttle may deserve a bit more accuracy too.
I see, thanks.
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I’ve ordered the 16000M. Fingers crossed.
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Just a vote for the basic X52. Actually doesn’t look bad, and whilst the LCDs are redundant, the functionality and quality of the stick haven’t left me disappointed. Have had mine for going on 7 years with absolutely no problems. Software also not as bad as others make out. Spring might be weaker than some, but you adapt.
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Okay, so my T.16000M has finally arrived. I’ve only tested it in BMS so far, but that’s okay, as it’s the benchmark flightsim anyway.
Plug-and-play (on Windows 10) works well without installing TM’s calibration software and BMS recognizes the stick and its 16 buttons.
The centering spring(?) is indeed a bit stiff, but this offers kind of a counter force when you’re applying very small inputs. Perfect for avoiding overcompensation, but you can’t control the stick with your fingers and need a solid grip at all times.
Precision is great so far. No jitters, nothing.
Z-Axis (rudder) input is stiff and if you set a deadzone around the center, you won’t produce any accidential rudder movement.
The buttons sound as they look - like plastic. But who cares for that price?
Haptics are okay. Resting my index finger below the trigger instead of the #3 button on the T.Flight X/Fox 2 Pro Shock is a bit unusual though.
When the stick is moved, LEDs at the bottom of the base will illuminate. It didn’t distract me during the short tests, but I might just tape them over anyway.
Putting the stick to the extreme left or right with a bit of force will lift the base on the opposite end a bit for half a second or so, but this can be avoided by simply not doing any sudden, extreme control inputs.
The biggest issue for me so far is the throttle slider. On one hand, it’s precise, but on the other, it does not offer a lot of travel. I need to do adjustments at sub-mm scale in some situations. Not sure if I can get used to that. Maybe it’s best to get a dedicated device for this. So far, I’ve minimized the afterburner zone in the controller setup to make it works as well as it can.To be very honest here: After giving the 16000M the first go in BMS in the takeoff, landing and AAR TEs, I was about to unplug the stick, rewrap it and send it back. It took a side-by-side comparison with my old stick by switching between sticks in the BMS setup and reflying the TE to see the merits of the new one.
When doing aerial refueling, I found myself working the ailerons and elevators much less often. Therefor, I could focus more on working the throttle to stay in position. My hookups were thus faster and longer; I also found myself not drifting too much out of the boom’s envelope when I got disconnected. And every disconnect was due to a slip of concentration. Sliding in and out of position and then sticking to the tanker’s wing to wait for #2 to refuel was also much easier. (I’m by no means a pro when it comes to AAR.)
Granted, my comparison was a worn out stick, but it really shows how much of an impact a flightstick can have when doing difficult flying maneuvers.For funsies, I also used both sticks at the same time, with the 16000M for the control surfaces and the Fox 2 Pro’s slider for the throttle. I’ve found that the larger range of movement on the old stick’s slider (combined with the run down potentiometer) was indeed inferior to the microscopic adjustments required on the new one.
Overall, the 16000M looks like a keeper. I’ll see if I can score a cheap throttle quadrant some time or mod the throttle slider somehow to improve the perceived movement range.
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If you’re still looking for a throttle,I would not recommend the Saitek TQ’s. I have a pair of them, and they both have issues with jittery movement and jumping around on the axis for pretty much all the levers. I’d probably recommend the CH throttle instead, but I haven’t actually ever used or owned one of them, so I can’t really tell.
The T.16000 was a good stick for me when I couldn’t use my right arm due to surgery, so I think you made a good choice there -
Thanks for the warning about the Saitek TQ, although it’s admittedly not quite what I wanted to hear. A CH throttle (USB) retails for 180€ at the moment, which is, well, let’s just say nope, no way, nuh uh, nyet, nein, non, etc…and there’s no alternative out there (except DIY maybe).
