RNAV AIRWAYS in Korea Theatre : What Characteristics?

[Wingedsky]

Hi,

Studying the Korea AIP, I can’t find any characteristics of Standards Airways, except the width (10NM).:?:
I have found that in France there is 2 zones : the Low or high space.
The Low one is from 3 000 ft to FL195 and the High one from FL195 to FL660.
Are these data applicable to Korea theatre ?
If not, what do I have to take into account ?

any kind of indications are welcome:idea:

Windblow

[Ahmed]

If you really want to got “that far”, you should be able to find all that info in the real Korean AIP Koean AIS website

Check the enroute (ENR) section if you are unfamiliar with rw aip

[Wingedsky]

Thanks Ahmed. I am going to study your link
Do you think this could be applicable to BMS ?

[Ahmed]

Well it really depends on what you want to achieve. For example, in the vfw I’m member of (87th) one guy created a simulated exercise framework with detailed SOPs that mimic real life procedures for peace-time exercises and included procedures to transition in and out of MOAs, transit through airways, etc.

However, in my average day to day BMS I just care about the tactical flying part, so the AIP would not help much.

[Wingedsky]

Very interesting reading in fact. Thannks you very much for the link.

I can realize once more how close to the real thing BMS is, even on AIP airways, information points …
For sure, I am not really familiar with all this part of the flight : this is not the usual work of a pilot glider !
I would like to add to my work (Korea-Aeronautical-Information-Publication-For-TACVIEW) the Airways.
I share the fact that this work is not for an “average day to day BMS”, but it can contribute to realistic analyse of flight with TACWIEW and formation too as you can “see” things that are on BMS Manual and AIP.
so let’s see. I am going to prepare data and will discuss with Red Dog about this.

Windblow

[Dee-Jay]

In operation, Airways are only for civilian traffic. For military, there is the ACP (Air Coordination Plan) and the ACO (Air Coordination Order published every days) defining the routes, transit corridor, BDZ, WFZ, ROZ, (reserved/restricted areas) over friendly airspace.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/100-103/f1001_3.htm

[Wingedsky]

I just get a quick reading and that sounds very interresting too; Thanks Dee-Jay. I have to read it deeply.

Basically, does it mean that in operation, your route must avoid Airways ?

In this case, you have to build your flight plan in accordance as the only available information (in BMS world) are airways and not ACP or ACO defining routes over friendly airspace.

[Red Dog]

Beside me wanting to do the white maps, the idea behind the airways in the interactive map is not quite to identify or use airways which are totally irrelevant in BMS, at least until we have civilian traffic
The idea is rather to identify long range navaid that should be used for navigation in bms and are usually placed at airways intersections.
As opposed to terminal navaids which are meant to guide for approach.
Please don’t heat up that eternal debate again, it’s how things have been planned in BMS regardless of the real life issues

Another aspect is that in Korea you perfecly see the MOA geometry around the airways and i needed to trace the airways to actually decide where to put the MOA because of the falcon specific projection system that makes any kind of real data non matching. So the airways from my perspective are only there to define the geometry of the MOA, as for most of them in real korea

[Wingedsky]

Sorry Red Dog.
I only ignore that is was an " eternal debate" and of course there is no will to criticize BMS work at all. The work done by BMS team is just incredible !

Windblow

[Red Dog]

don’t worry, it was intended at Dj (long lasting private joke)

[Bravo]

Just curious, why are you interested in RNAV airways?
I havent seen any CNS/ATM or other GPS panels for use to fly RNAV in any F-16 pictures.
is there something Ive missed or are you asking for the TCN/VORTAC airways?

[Wingedsky]

You don’t have missed anything Bravo. My interest has nothing to do with CNS/ATM system but only with TCN/VORTAC airways as describe in the BMS Korea AIP.
I was just curious about the représentation of the RNAV data as delivered by Red Dog and wonder if there would have an interest for the community to represent these data in TACVIEW.
Using Tacview can be a very pedagogic way to explain aeronautical meaning of things.:D

[Wingedsky]

Hi,

I tried to used the references you pointed.
Minimum altitude of Airways in BMS KTO AIP are missing.
Maximum altitude is Max of Classe A, which is FL600

here is the result, based on real data.

and in tacview, from Kwangju, with only B576 and V547 airways modelized.

Please let me know your feeling.

Windblow

[Wingedsky]

Hi,
I have completed Airways modelization and integrated it in the BMS 4.33 KTO AIP static objects for TACVIEW
You can find all the stuff here

[Wingedsky]

Here is the PDF used to create airways. you can find altitudes/FL of each segment!;)
KTO AIP for TACVIEW - RNAV AIRWAYS.pdf

[Prot]

Hi,
one question:
From where do You got the lat long coordinates of VOTRTACS and (airbase) TACAN stations? I didn’t found any information in the BMS AIP Korea. Are there the real ones?

[Wingedsky]

Hi Prot,
you can find them by cliking on the location of VORTAC or TACAN on the Red Dog Map : as specified, this is an interactive map;)
BMS KAIP : [http://www.candyparty.com/ST/BMS_KOREA_interactive/index.html](BMS KAIP : http://www.candyparty.com/ST/BMS_KOREA_interactive/index.html)
Airbase Coordinates are assimilated to TACAN coordinates. For VORTAC, you have the data in the box that appears in the interactive Map.

Windblow

[Prot]

Hmm,
the idea to get the VORTAC coordinates from the interactive map sounds good.
But I assume that the coordinates displayed in the aerodrome charts are the aerodrome reference points(ARP). The position of the airbase VORTACs should differ from these positions because the ARP is normally at the center of a single RWY and the TACAN should be not there.

Greets Prot

[Red Dog]

that’s correct Prot.
Arp in BMS (Korea) is the tower whenever the tower is a feature. if not it’s the center of the runway.
The tacan in airbases unless a feature is at the center of the tile and we don’t have the coordinates published at this time as this is WIP

[n8d0g]

@Wingedsky:

I just get a quick reading and that sounds very interresting too; Thanks Dee-Jay. I have to read it deeply.

Basically, does it mean that in operation, your route must avoid Airways ?

In this case, you have to build your flight plan in accordance as the only available information (in BMS world) are airways and not ACP or ACO defining routes over friendly airspace.

Bit of a necro-bump but I felt this may of interest to the OP.

I work for an South East Asian air control center, i can tell you that military traffic do not follow RNAV routes and many of the transports are not RNP equipped. I would be interested if fighter aircraft have RNP10. I presume they would have RNP1.

They do however have at least the decency (or perhaps its convenient for them) to use our waypoints so its not total chaos.

Normally if there is a miltiary practice, we set up a Prohibited airspace(note Prohibted . not Restricted ) in a FL block.