Possible active radar missile bug (very serious issue)
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How do you reconcile the fact the real missile is not that great, to the point at least two are often fired to try and increase PK, in some cases, three? Not only that, but pilots generally don’t fire them truly BVR because of the very low PK? The most well-known employments of AIM-120 are all fired at ranges less than 10 nm (or WVR), and then multiple missiles were fired to ensure a kill.
In other words, the real thing is pretty darn lousy, so why is BMS still massively over-modelled?
Best regards,
Tango. -
That’s not the thing I heard.
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Not only that, but pilots generally don’t fire them truly BVR because of the very low PK? The most well-known employments of AIM-120 are all fired at ranges less than 10 nm (or WVR),……
I think this is plausible on high aspect shot. The 120 is less agile at the beginning of it flight when it is the heaviest because of unburned fuel. iirc the 120 is twice the weight compared to the winder. And at <10nm the defending pilot should be able to see the launch.
In other words, the real thing is pretty darn lousy, so why is BMS still massively over-modelled?
It’s not over modeled imo. I can defend homplate against 6 ace Mig-29/AA-12 (4 escort) on an OCA with one F-16. However, missiles pk should not be improved without improving the AI’s ability to dodge
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The 120 is less agile at the beginning of it flight when it is the heaviest because of unburned fuel.
Really? I mean….REALLY?
:facepalm:
The 120 is less agile when it is OUT OF FUEL and thus OUT OF THRUST.
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However, missiles pk should not be improved without improving the AI’s ability to dodge
it’s not about improving the PK of the 120 it’s about reducing the PK
the AI is already capable of dealing with a reduced PK of the 120,
as the 120 is now, it’s child’s play to defeat it at 14 miles and up. i don’t bother with chaff as it never works, i try terrein masking and bouncing the missile between the 3-9 line, count a certain amount of numbers in your head from missile warning on the RWR and you know when you can climb and turn into the missile without it ever hitting you.
defeating it closer than 12 miles is getting considerably harder, most of the time if you’re below 400 kn and within 12 miles the PK of the slammer is incredibly high, the only chance you have of defeating it is by some good flying and starting out fast to begin with, otherwise you are toast.
the thing is though, when i read (on wiki for example) that the missile is far less reliable than it is in BMS, i start thinking, if it was as (un)reliable in BMS as it was in real life, i could defeat the missile in other ways thus i don’t have to turn cold on the target, i could put him on gimbals, do some aerobatics pop some chaff and continue attacking the bandit that was smart enough to turn cold on me expecting a missile in the air, or stupid enough to come straight at me and i can kill it and run.
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Still not understand why reduced the PK of the missile.
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as far as i understand it from reading this thread it’s because it doesnt match what it’s real life counter part does.
as mentioned earlier, in real life the PK of this missile is around 40% and it also is hardly ever used BVR because the pk drops so low you might as well throw pop corn at the other jet.
in BMS the missile is far more lethal than it should be compared to it’s real life counter-part -
try this than, quite close to the real thing…
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?8230-Suggestion-for-database-data-supply/page51
“look @ the last post of the page”Specifications
Primary Function Air-to-air tactical missile
Contractor Hughes Aircraft Co. and Raytheon Co.
Power Plant High performance
Length 143.9 inches (366 centimeters)
Launch Weight 335 pounds (150.75 kilograms)
Diameter 7 inches (17.78 centimeters)
Wingspan 20.7 inches (52.58 centimeters)
Range 20+ miles (17.38+ nautical miles)
Speed Supersonic
Guidance System Active radar terminal/inertial midcourse
Warhead Blast fragmentation
Unit Cost $386,000QT
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Really? I mean….REALLY?
:facepalm:
The 120 is less agile when it is OUT OF FUEL and thus OUT OF THRUST.
You have not notice that your F-16 is more agile when it is low on fuel?
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oh someone close this thread….
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Guys, public information is one thing. Some real pilot have feedback about the missile, and the return is completly different. AIM-120 is too weak in BMS for him.
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Give up Laurent. They do not like you … that is maybe why they are under-evaluating your real Pk
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So what does the pilot say then? Just that its weak? Does he say what makes it weak in bms?
Cheers
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First I don’t think he will ever answer.
Second I don’t think he is just one.
Third I think those kind of things r inside info that can never go public. like whom, how, data, stats etc.
Forcing and asking for those infos, first, is like hitting our head on the wall. Second becomes irritating to the ppl involved, sure they can just ignore us, sure they will, better will. -
Guys, if you will discubb about AIM-120 effectiveness why don’t you open a new topic? I opened this topic to discuss a bug.
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Guys, if you will discubb about AIM-120 effectiveness why don’t you open a new topic? I opened this topic to discuss a bug.
And it has been addressed by Biker and other moderators.
What has NOT been addressed is the glaring range issues and lack of atmospheric benefits from higher-altitude launches.
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Just to add an experience, I never defeated an AMRAAM or an AA-12 with chaffs, always and only by dragging it.
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I read through first few pages here an jumped to here .
Didn’t we go through this about 1 or so ago with BMS devs ?That said, what you describe is what I always saw in older version . Once you set a missile up properly with active radar . the seeker refreshes itself so yes the chaff is working “but” it is able to reacquire a lock fast right after the last chaffs . I don’t remember the rate and I believe it is hardcoded .
With SARH you only need to break the lock once .
I would think what is needed would be how many sweep rates the active radar needs to reacquire a lock again .
I don’t have F4 stuff on this machine so I can’t give more info, as I am going by memory .
I know we left it alone in AF as we had to real time to change or RL data to change it .