A10 Flight control issue
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IMHO, three things to consider about other ACs :
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the fact that the war environment is really good in Falcon and does not, per se, depends on the F-16, makes the idea of flying other AC nice ;
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the flight model of other AC will never be as good as the F-16, except if out of the blue, NASA decides to redo another simulator and publishes on it with an equivalent paper as the TP 1538, somebody also gets the EM diagram and is willing to reformat all this into an AFM file, and the FLCS (for FBW ACs) is implemented. That’s a lot of ifs.
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the avionics are and will remain heavily F-16 dependent, simply because coding different avionics and maintaining them would be demanding a lot more time of coding, beta testing, and bugfixing.
All in all, I stick to the F-16, personnally.
Right, I do, too, but putting aside all the (otherwise well grounded) reservations, isn’t the idea of carrying 10 AMRAAM’s tempting? Heck, even if the cockpit doesn’t show properly… (you certainly know what I mean)
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And was the NFBW experiment sucessful (besides the woobliness)???
Is it possible to make an alternate “not-as-real”, “still-basically-F-16” FM for the A-10?
Of course, it is obvious, that BMS’ FMs are just modifications to the F-16’s FM. All the other planes are just F-16 in different costumes. Is there really anyone with the skills and time and resources to make new, F-16 free, FMs for BMS? Probably not.
But even within this limitation, an A-10 FM would come out good enought in comparition to 90% of other combat flight simulators (I can only think of one that is probably better for the A-10’s FM…). The combat enviroment of BMS is a great opportunity to fly A-10 type of missions.
The only issue I see with the A-10 (besides the experimental NFBW FM) is the fact that wingmen can not use the Avenger gun against ground targets. And even then, I still would love to fly the A-10 in BMS if it could be made a bit more stable.
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The combat enviroment of BMS is a great opportunity to fly A-10 type of missions.
Yep sure … but I just wonder (?) what is the benefit of working on A-10 and flying A-10 instead of the regular F-16 which is able to do the same task int this environment.
The only issue I see with the A-10 (besides the experimental NFBW FM) is the fact that wingmen can not use the Avenger gun against ground targets. And even then, I still would love to fly the A-10 in BMS if it could be made a bit more stable.
AIs can’t do ground straff. Not only A-10 wingman but all other a/c type also.
“Everything” is possible … but the question is: Do you really want the 3 - 4 week becomes 6 - 8 weeks? This is a question of resources and risks of new bug, more fixes … more Btest, more delays …
In any case … you will be to be patient. Maybe the A-10 will (perhaps someday) fly better, but A-10 is not the priority.
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Well, the benefit of working mission on an A-10 instead of a regular F-16 is that “you are on an A-10”. It is psychological: Most of it is a mix of aesthetic and the pure joy of escapism fantasy… I like the A-10 better than the F-16, so in my 2 hours of fun I dedicate to a mission in BMS, I would enjoy more the feeling that I am an A-10 pilot than a F-16 pilot. Isn’t this the reason why we fly our computers in the virtual skies?
I have been flying the Falcon series since Falcon AT, so if there is something I have learned over the years is that the true attribute of a Falcon fan is patience. I am sure eventually BMS or some other flavor of Falcon will deliver the ultimate Falcon A-10 experience.
I don’t want anyone to think I am giving the finger to the BMS team, they have done a great job, and I know the sim IS ABOUT the F-16. But… it would be so much fun to be able to fly the A-10, the ugly duckling in the AF family of tac jets.
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I like the A-10 better than the F-16, so in my 2 hours of fun I dedicate to a mission in BMS, I would enjoy more the feeling that I am an A-10 pilot than a F-16 pilot.
You should give a try to
.Meantime, nothing you can do for the A-10 in BMS to fix that trimming issue.
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I have. I like Falcon BMS better, specifically for the theaters and wingmen commands available…
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And was the NFBW experiment sucessful (besides the woobliness)???
Is it possible to make an alternate “not-as-real”, “still-basically-F-16” FM for the A-10?
Of course, it is obvious, that BMS’ FMs are just modifications to the F-16’s FM. All the other planes are just F-16 in different costumes. Is there really anyone with the skills and time and resources to make new, F-16 free, FMs for BMS? Probably not.
But even within this limitation, an A-10 FM would come out good enought in comparition to 90% of other combat flight simulators (I can only think of one that is probably better for the A-10’s FM…). The combat enviroment of BMS is a great opportunity to fly A-10 type of missions.
The only issue I see with the A-10 (besides the experimental NFBW FM) is the fact that wingmen can not use the Avenger gun against ground targets. And even then, I still would love to fly the A-10 in BMS if it could be made a bit more stable.
Nfbw FM code is a full success .
The instability in pitch is Data related not code.
No time to work on those data.
no the FMs is BMS are not disguised F16. Best example beeing the a10 ….
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The only issue I see with the A-10 (besides the experimental NFBW FM) is the fact that wingmen can not use the Avenger gun against ground targets. And even then, I still would love to fly the A-10 in BMS if it could be made a bit more stable.
… as Jp said:
The NFBW is not an experimental module … it is the “basic air module” where the F-16’s FBW is plugged next to give the F-16 AFM. Understand that the NFBW is the AFM for a classic a/c (non FWB controlled) …
So the A-10 is just suffering from lack of data adjustment.Maybe later.
Take a look to FM article: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?45-documentation
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… as Jp said:
The NFBW is not an experimental module … it is the “basic air module” where the F-16’s FBW is plugged next to give the F-16 AFM. Understand that the NFBW is the AFM for a classic a/c (non FWB controlled) …
So the A-10 is just suffering from lack of data adjustment.Maybe later.
Take a look to FM article: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?45-documentation
No DJ
NFBW is completely different from AFM
NFBW has been developped to test the EOM physics engine which is the new engine of 4.32
But NFBW uses a local aero module while AFM uses a global aero module…
everything is detailed in the FM articles for those who are interested
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@smg13, Did you try the F-15C? Just a thought, its a pretty good model.
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I have tried everything in BMS! The F-15 “feels” really good… but of course, I have never flown one in RL, so I am going by “feel”. A bit overpowered though… have you read this interview TAC1-1?:
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/how-to-win-in-a-dogfight-stories-from-a-pilot-who-flew-1682723379
If you like the F-15, you might find it interesting.
I am more of a ground-pounder, so I tend to gravitate towards mud-movers. I like the F-15E a lot, even if it uses the F-16’s cockpit… (still, it feels a bit “over-powered”). And these days, with the discussion to pass a lot of the duties of the A-10s to the F-15Es, I am starting to fly it more often.
Well, everyone, thanks for the enlightening discussion, I have understood a bit better why the A-10 flys the way it does in BMS… it seems that maybe someday someone could look into the A-10 data and “fix” it a bit more to give us A-10 lovers a better plane. Cheers!
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That’s a good read, smg13, thanks for sharing. Yes, the Eagle has always appealed to me, no wonder I have tried the F-15C in BMS, too. The devs themselves say its modelling is far from complete, and, well, who am I to judge? To me it’s great fun to fly, even though I must admit I crash-landed the F-15 on the first attempt, probably because I had been accustomed to an entirely different response of the F-16 to the controls at low speeds.
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Just select simplified flight model in the setup page and you will get OFM for the A10 .
Don’t forget to put back realistic if you fly the f 16
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Uhmmm… that is a really good idea Mav-jp… I am going to try it, never crossed my mind.
What do you scarify with simplified flight modeling? Stalls?
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Uhmmm… that is a really good idea Mav-jp… I am going to try it, never crossed my mind.
What do you scarify with simplified flight modeling? Stalls?
You will get original microprose flight model
Read FM articles available here on the website
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You will get original microprose flight model
Read FM articles available here on the website
I tired this last night, and I was still getting un-commanded roll/pitch in the A-10. Plus some issues with the autopilot.
I still managed to cluster bomb my target and get the jet back and landed. But it was a huge pain.
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I tired this last night, and I was still getting un-commanded roll/pitch in the A-10. Plus some issues with the autopilot.
I still managed to cluster bomb my target and get the jet back and landed. But it was a huge pain.
impossible.
you certainly didnt apply the flight model setting correctly
you need to choose the simplified model.
if you still can not get it to work or are unsure about how to make it work, juste delete the A10_AFM.dat file in your sim/acdata folder
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impossible.
you certainly didnt apply the flight model setting correctly
you need to choose the simplified model.
if you still can not get it to work or are unsure about how to make it work, juste delete the A10_AFM.dat file in your sim/acdata folder
Would it matter that I edited my setup after I had already launched the TE?
It’s possible I might have also entered the Jet before I came back out and reset the flight model.
I will try it again tonight before launching the TE, and if it’s still giving me un-commanded roll/pitch after that, I will delete the flight model data file.
EDIT: Tried it, got uncommanded roll. Emptied all the stores from the jet, I got uncommanded role. Reset all my controls, I got uncommanded roll. Deleted the file you mentioned, got uncommanded roll.
Obviously this is not something you need to bother fixing, but I thought I would post my results up here anyway.
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Would it matter that I edited my setup after I had already launched the TE?
It’s possible I might have also entered the Jet before I came back out and reset the flight model.
I will try it again tonight before launching the TE, and if it’s still giving me un-commanded roll/pitch after that, I will delete the flight model data file.
EDIT: Tried it, got uncommanded roll. Emptied all the stores from the jet, I got uncommanded role. Reset all my controls, I got uncommanded roll. Deleted the file you mentioned, got uncommanded roll.
Obviously this is not something you need to bother fixing, but I thought I would post my results up here anyway.
if you have uncommanded roll with simplified model (ofm) that means you have a problem of joystick or rudder.
please check that your joystick is centered with the center button and check that no weird axis is used for rudder
FYI even empty the a10 will have uncommanded roll due to assym pods BUT only for AFM
OFM can not have unbalance
i am sure every people here czn confirm you that there is no unbalance for a10 with simplified model so there is nothing to fix…
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I did check my stick…it’s working fine in the F-16.
But then when I tried the F-15 I had the same problem.
This happened to me once before, and the solution was to delete my key file (which apparently had some left over DX commands in it from an old trim setup I was using) and create a new off the base BMS key file, so I think that is what I am going to do.