Read the Manual eh?? = useless so far… because I did not look hard enough
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Sorry, but I’m with Murpy and I’m sad because of this.
When BMS4 was released I printed many docs and read it through hours. In late 2009 I was master of FF but even today I did not learned to use BMS4. Why? Because the manuals are simply terrible.
I’m not joking, the basics are better even in AF manual, and what a luck BMS4 still strongly based of RP5/SP3 times so you can use it. I still can’t recall from my mind how I can tune my radio to talk with tower and simply I have no idea where should I start to look because the totally non logical structure.
This is why I made long time ago Hungarian manual* for FF and HUN/ENG training videos.** The manual was 180 pages long but what concerned on flying, system, the cockpit were only about 100 pages and most of Hungarian users learned form that. It was very “dense” but at least had logicat structure and was supported with videos.
The structure of shipped manual(s) from my aspect simply do not fit for new players, even and old Falconer cannot use it sometimes. (At least me…)
IMHO a manual should be built that explains tha AC as a newbie would meet things. Even it is Hungarian you can see this, the manual is linked below.
1. Install & game settings
2. Basic config of game (config of HOTAS out of scope it is not for newbies who first meet with a FS, a newbie very likely does not have such serious stuff)
3. Description of the cockpit according to panels (from left to right and finally the HUD) and main instruments. Yes, as a newbie you do not have to use all of them from 0, but you always know where to look for help.
4. Takeoff, fuel management, navigation and landing and padlock in differnt modes + orientation. (+ startup)
5. Explaining the MDFs, mastermodes and override modes-
6. Basics of radar, only AA modes then using AA missiles and gun and because yo do not fly alone basic wingman commands.
7. Basic of radar, AGM modes and strike weapon usage.
8. Defensive manovers and basics how thins works in Falcon. (Do not telling anything deeply about the engine, just what a user should know about modeling what is pointless to do.)Where is this structure in manuals? I cannot see anywhere… Also you have to keep the balance between “way too deep” or way to HC. Is somwhere about a 100 pages long manual about navigation. It is far too more detailed than sohuld be. Explaing thins as way which do not exist in Falcon. As many times said Dee Jay, big part of realism depend on player. But for many players describing things as you would sit on an airliner or real F-16 is simply not useful…
Long time ago I planned to reworks for BMS4, but HUN comm. now is so small that I felt pointless and do it in ENG? I never will have time for it I have not learned BMS4… When I will learn fly well with BMS4 - God knows when…- I will use YT traning vidoes because of this. I have to rely on training videos for Krause. He talks way too late to my taste but a video can be rewinded or jumped to a point anytime and I can see how it works, at least on basic level.
*http://www.mediafire.com/view/71l2abxdhy9fejt/FreeFalcon5_magyar_2011_06_27.pdf
**A part of them is still useful for BMS4.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL485D1BC9820873D7 -
Then you might be pleased when the next version is released
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Then even you might be pleased when the next version is released
Roger. In fact I alway love at least make a quick check in Docs before I launch anything.
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Well that’s my new word for the day :mrgreen:
Impressive qualifications; Aussie further education?
Darkman, I made the honour role
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As a newbie lurker, let me chime in. I really disagree Molni. Less than a year ago, I had never flown a sim in my life. I had a general interest in military aviation, and spotted aircraft in my teens.
I started with just reading through the available manuals, like the dashes etc. Watched a few youtube videos. Just reading through the forum posts here is also very helpful (there are many very knowledgeable, constructive and instructive people around here) And than I just started flying around, tryin some buttons.
After 2 months I joined a VFS (the 31st), and this really makes a world of difference. Nothing like other people in realtime teaching you stuff. Also a great motivator for additional studying, as you don’t want to let your teammates down.
Looooong way before ever getting close to being an expert, but after half a year I was pretty confident around the jet.
Nope, there is no recipe style manual, but for me that is part of the accuracy of the sim. Or did I miss the RL learn-to-fly-a-viper cookbook?
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Bottom line is there ain’t no shortcuts to learning this sim…gawd I love it as it’s an excellent community vetting system.
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As a newbie lurker, let me chime in. I really disagree Molni. Less than a year ago, I had never flown a sim in my life. I had a general interest in military aviation, and spotted aircraft in my teens.
I started with just reading through the available manuals, like the dashes etc. Watched a few youtube videos. Just reading through the forum posts here is also very helpful (there are many very knowledgeable, constructive and instructive people around here) And than I just started flying around, tryin some buttons.
After 2 months I joined a VFS (the 31st), and this really makes a world of difference. Nothing like other people in realtime teaching you stuff. Also a great motivator for additional studying, as you don’t want to let your teammates down.
Looooong way before ever getting close to being an expert, but after half a year I was pretty confident around the jet.
Nope, there is no recipe style manual, but for me that is part of the accuracy of the sim. Or did I miss the RL learn-to-fly-a-viper cookbook?
You mentioned and “underlined” the VFS and YT videos. From your post I see just what I said. Stange. Not manual was your first information and traning source. I have so long flight sim experience that I literally jump into old HC flight sim and more or less I can fly with them after 1-2 hours….
…and yet I do not find useful manuals what I got in \docs.
I also trained for some hours a Hungarian guy, how had past flight sim experience with FF. He said the FF’s Compainion was garbage, he labelled as in a “colorful magazin” but not a useful manual. I have to say for beginners SP3 manual is also not so bad. Not as long as AF but it is very, very dense.
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Understood…And point taken… thank you for your response.
You are welcome mate. And remember … in case of big pain, do not hesitate to ask … on my side I will do my best to tell you where to find the info, or, if I have the time and if there is nothing in manuals, I will try to give you a more or less detailed answer.
Non talking about other friendsCheers!
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Bottom line is there ain’t no shortcuts to learning this sim…gawd I love it as it’s an excellent community vetting system.
I agree Mower. You honestly have to put in the time to read the manuals. If you don’t like reading the manual then do a training video search on youtube. With future iterations of this sim, the complexity is going to get more difficult.
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When BMS4 was released I printed many docs and read it through hours. In late 2009 I was master of FF but even today I did not learned to use BMS4. Why? Because the manuals are simply terrible.
Where is this structure in manuals? I cannot see anywhere…
Where is the community? Rather than starting hundreds of (never finished never ending) theaters, … where are ppl for that kind of task? Same apply to the TacRef … !
Except the F4AF conversion manual … do the community waiting for Red Dog to do the job?
Ok too late now … job is done and about to be release (3 - 4 weeks) but we are four years after the first official release. So … the entire community is guilty about the lack of proper learning/training material. Not only BMS.
EDIT: Not against you Molni, I think we are sharing the same point.
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Except the F4AF conversion manual … do the community waiting for Red Dog to do the job?
That is useful but only players who had played with older Falcon variants.
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That is useful but only players who had played with older Falcon variants.
Nope, because it can be used as complement to the “Original” F4AF manual which is available on the Web.
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Nope, because it can be used as complement to the “Original” F4AF manual which is available on the Web.
Correct.
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Well that’s my new word for the day :mrgreen:
Impressive qualifications; Aussie further education?
I lived in the town of Boganville for a period. Its a small place on the mid north coast of New South Wales, a few miles inland from Macksville.
There they have a War museum and their pride and joy is a brass statue of Raven as the finest example of a self made Bogan.
They still tell stories of His exploits as a young truant on the local beaches in and around Nambucca Heads & Coffs Harbour.
And if you looks up the term “bludger” or “beachbum” in and Australian dictionary you will find a reference to Raven6 standing in a Doll queue for his unemployment benifits. -
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Seriously though, if you just watch training videos on youtube you can learn enough to be able to do everything important. I was kicking the crap out of the AI in a few weeks to months, tops, just from youtube vids and sparse reading of the manual . If you can only learn from a text format for some reason, then have fun with the manuals, its all there. But Ive had enough textbooks in college, else I might be in a real viper today, so youtube it is. You can learn enough to be competent from the videos, krause’s to be specific. TMS and DMS are the only freaking buttons you really need anyway ( hotas rules, thanks general dynamics!).
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I lived in the town of Boganville for a period. Its a small place on the mid north coast of New South Wales, a few miles inland from Macksville.
There they have a War museum and their pride and joy is a brass statue of Raven as the finest example of a self made Bogan.
They still tell stories of His exploits as a young truant on the local beaches in and around Nambucca Heads & Coffs Harbour.
And if you looks up the term “bludger” or “beachbum” in and Australian dictionary you will find a reference to Raven6 standing in a Doll queue for his unemployment benifits.A true Aussie Hero & national treasure. http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad272/ShadowVonChadwick/thumbs-up.jpg
Hahaha….
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For those of us that have been around since Falcon4 came out, the changes to Falcon are easy to learn. However, as a noob starting now the whole thing is very difficult. Everything has changed, game play, media, documents, single play to multiplay, controllers, and attitudes. I remember not being able to land until update 3, and more then three ships in multiplay not really happening till AF. I remember the Freebirds as a place to go and learn (really miss doc and the others). Where we went to exchange stories and get help was Frugals and Combatsim. Went to a local lan party and was amazed that their were other people that did this. Joined a VFS and spent many hours with people that became more than family. I wish to welcome Murphy back, because his dollars for Falcon3 paved a way for Falcon4. I know that Red Dog has done many things for this community, especially he is one of those that have led us here to today where we still exist without the paid support of other major creators, modders, etc. Let us all be a little tolerant of new users. And if the moderators change the title of your post, there is a reason for it. This is a forum that caters to all Falcon users that has to moderated because not all users have the best interest of the forum all of the time. Not all users understand that a simple question can not be answered in a simple way.
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I wish to welcome Murphy back, because his dollars for Falcon3 paved a way for Falcon4.
Thank you… I bought Falcon 3 and then purchased Falcon 4 as soon as it became available. While I never got around to playing Falcon 4.0 (Career, family, etc etc), I still have the original disk for it sitting in my cd collection.
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I would agree with Pumpyhead’s brief commentary on the expectations of a student. I would also point out that in the air force, both the student and the teacher are getting paid to be there and cannot simply refuse assistance unreasonably without consequence.
I would disagree that there is not the information available in manuals to learn the sim. There is perhaps a shortage of hungarian manuals, but the english docs provided are a good start, if supplemented with ones written by lockheed martin. Documentation exists on how to set your sim up, it exists on how to fly each type of mission, how to release weapons… it simply requires due diligence in researching it.
Murphy, you commented that IRL viper pilots do not just read a manual then go flying. Its not actually that far from the mark. They get 6 weeks of ground instruction, reading the dash one cover to cover then getting lectured at about all the aircraft systems. Then they go flying in a D model. Sortie number 5 they start flying a C model. Its not JUST reading a manual, its reading it over and over and over… then getting lectured about it some more.