Snowplow markpoint nightmare
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Hello simmers
While radar is stabilized in AG STP MODE creating a markpoint is possible
While radar is stabilized in AG snowplow it is impossible. (Icp 7 puts SOI on hud and loses fcr track)Bug or real like ?
Has anyone succeeded in creating a mk point on a gmt track while in snowplow ?
(Other than using SPI link to TGP new 4.33 feature ) -
Hello simmers
While a target is locked in AG STP MODE creating a markpoint is possible
While a target is locked in AG snowplow it is impossible. (Icp 7 puts SOI on hud and loses fcr track)Bug or real like ?
Has anyone succeeded in creating a mk point on a gmt track while in snowplow ?
(Other than using SPI link to TGP new 4.33 feature )Yes. Just cycle SOI to FCR in mark point menu, then lock your ground target.
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I am too struggling now with Marking targets. In SP mode it is not doing as the manual says and instantly outs you to HUD mark. Okay I just cycle through to TGP mark and also put my SOI back to TGP… my issue is that the saved mark points are not saving the right coordinates. Often when inputting the new steerpoint I will see my marker on my FCR jump several miles off my target which I marked! Anyone else experiencing this. I am just about to do another flight tomorrow morning so I will test again but on both previous flights this has been the case. Making my SEAD missions next to impossible as it is.
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…. Often when inputting the new steerpoint I will see my marker on my FCR jump several miles off my target which I marked!….
Do you mean setting the markpoint to be your current steerpoint?
If so, try Cursor Zero. You have to ‘zero’ the SPI delta from slewing the SOI (TGP in this case, if I’m reading correctly). New feature.
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Your a genius…. CZ worked perfectly
The first time every time I use the Mark point it always sets itself to HUD… but from that moment on whenever I go back to Mark it remains on my SOI. Then once I have my markpoint clicking CZ brings me right back to target and doesnt slew miles off. Thanks again. I am back to being happy!
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The first time every time I use the Mark point it always sets itself to HUD…
Even if you make sure you have TGP SOI and in an area track before you hit 7? Need to try this in BMS but it should come up in TGP then.
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Even when the TGP is SOI I am afraid but like I said… it only happens the first time I select it…thereafter it behaves correctly
Also want to add I use TGP in my R-MFD not L-MFD. Haven’t tested it in the left!
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Interesting stuff…. Moved to a BLOCK 40 and everything seems to behave exactly as it should. Is that possible? Have not tried any other bocks than the 50 and 40 though. The 50 causes me the issues. Hope it helps!
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Thanks madmcphil
first because you have understood my original question ans second for your interesting answer.
seems impossible to you as well to have markpoint set while in snowplow mode. (unlesss you use TGP if loaded)
so the snowplow markpoint nightmare only occurs on block 50 ?
bug or reality ?
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When the MARK page is selected, any TMS UP will create a new mark point,and not set the FCR or TGP in a track mode. This is important!
For in order to use MARK while the FCR is in SP, you will need to follow these steps :
Select SP
TMS UP
Slew to target of interest
TMS UP. (This will set the FCR in track mode)
ICP 7 (The MARK will now default in MARK FCR because the FCR is in track mode)
TMS UP to mark.
Subsequent TMS UP will create new mark points.If you select the MARK page before you enter SP mode you will not be able to slew the FCR cursors.
Remember. To be able to slew the FCR cursors in SP, you will need to first do a TMS UP. Since the MARK page is active, all TMS UPs record a mark point.
If you don’t set the FCR in track mode while in SP, selecting the MARK page will default to MARK HUD and your FCR will transition to AGR mode. Any TMS UP will again be used to mark.MARK will initialize on MARL TGP ONLY if the TGP is in a track mode
MARK will initialize on MARK FCR ONLY if the FCR is in a track mode. -
If you select GM SP after you enter mark point mode (FCR) then there is no way to enter post-designate SP since both that function and creating a mark point both use TMS forward (and mark point creation has priority). As far as I know there’s no secret alternate button to allow designating SP while in mark mode. Interesting enough creating the markpoint in pre-des-SP creates it at your pre-des cursors (even altitude). If you enter mark point mode while in pre-designate or post-designate SP the cycle out to AGR and back (that might be a bug, who knows if SP is supposed to persist going to AGR and back) the SP mode will be lost. The non-SP cursor slews are not lost however.
What definitely feels like a bug is when you enter mark point mode in post-designate SP and cycle through from HUD to FCR, the FCR does not provide an updating ground map. The cursors are returned to steerpoint (not pseudo-steerpoint) plus the system deltas. Cycling into MRM and back resumes the radar updating imagery about this non-SP-related point (STPT+system deltas).
In any case (SP or no) having FTT/GMTT while entering mark point mode does not change the FCR at all since mark point initializes with FCR as the marking sensor. As such SP or STPT mode, a track prevents the rather annoying AGR cycle associated with HUD mark initialization. The only downside is finding such a point to track which is not guaranteed. A useful tip is even if the track is rejected when you release TMS forward, you can hold TMS forward to keep it in FTT/GMTT just long enough to enter mark point mode.I have noticed that if you are in any GM/GMT/SEA and cycle through the mark modes (effectively AGR and back) in the BLK15 or BLK40 avionics you get a failure to map the ground (picture stops updating, radar doesn’t traverse) which requires a “kick” to reset (master mode, locking and unlocking a contact, cycling FCR power). The BLK50 avionics fail to map sometimes but not others (is it block dependent or not?). In both cases the SP mode is canceled.
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I will try to get to the bottom of this as when flying combat missions it is easy to “muscle memory” many of your inputs. I will take to the skies in a block 50 & 40 and map the differences in this. Although Leeches answer is correct it is not what we are facing here. I have been SEAD striking using TGP and FCR SP for a long time without this issue of being thrown to HUD on MARK points and loosing the very hard searched for SAM targets.
I flew in the Block 40 last night on a 3 hours SEAD mission (2 tanker fills, got to get better at those burnt almost 3000 lbs of fuel on reconnects ;P) and everything was working perfectly. I will mark down on paper exactly what is different in the 50 and any findings will be updated here. Like I mentioned before with the Block 50, it seems to be the first time I use the MARK point regardless of TMS up to SOI the FCR in SP mode, once you click that MARK button (after SOI and slew availability) it chucks you to HUD and drops your target! Even if you move the SOI to TGP the result is the same. Ater that forst annoying fail, all works fine thereafter. I always use SP mode. So for me its pretty critical to my missions as a SEAD specialist who refuses to use HARMS
Not sure if this is correct but in a real F-16 I think if no SOI is selected it actually defaults to a 0fly making it easy to mark current positions to handoff info to AWACS. Might be wrong on that. Not an F-16 pilot. Dammit!
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If you select the MARK page before you enter SP mode you will not be able to slew the FCR cursors.
Remember. To be able to slew the FCR cursors in SP, you will need to first do a TMS UP. Since the MARK page is active, all TMS UPs record a mark point.
If you don’t set the FCR in track mode while in SP, selecting the MARK page will default to MARK HUD and your FCR will transition to AGR mode. Any TMS UP will again be used to mark.Sounds like a correct summary of how it is. But can it be this way in the real thing? Under stress such a behavior easily invites problems and pilot oversaturation.
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(after SOI and slew availability) it chucks you to HUD and drops your target! Even if you move the SOI to TGP the result is the same.
!Are jyou ust moving the SOI to the TGP or commanding a TGP track mode ?
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I will get an answer to that in a bit. Been flying the BLOCK 40 recently with zero issues of Mark Points. I need to get back in the 50 to know exactly if I just made SOI or if I tracked. I think on both it still fails to HUD but like I said…… it does this the first time you make a mark point. Thereafter it works correctly even if you perform other tasks and come back to the Mark system it behaves correctly. Just the first use of each flight!
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It defaults to HUD if you dont have a better condition (FCR track, TGP track)
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I just tested the blk 50
Works as advertised. -
Tried block 50 this morning but could not replicate my results from before which was weird. The only thing I have changed is my controller mapping so maybe the issue lies there (using a x55 hotas). I tried several times to replicate what I had with the dropping to hud first time every time and just has not happened today. To be quite honest this has annoyed the living hell out of me as it was a genuine issue. Why it would not work for the first selection but would work thereafter tells me it was not something I was doing wrong in any way but a conflict or bug. Since the only thing to change is my controller setup, I will say probably conflict. Dont know… Just cant replicate it today.
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Sounds like a correct summary of how it is. But can it be this way in the real thing? Under stress such a behavior easily invites problems and pilot oversaturation.
Yeah. But FCR might not be used that much air to ground for marks anyway.