SAMS have unlimited ammo?
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Wow, how did you manage to dodge 12 missiles ? Can I ask you the acmi ? My skill need to be patched here lol…
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Wow, how did you manage to dodge 12 missiles ? Can I ask you the acmi ? My skill need to be patched here lol…
Keep your speed up and limit your G in the break. SA-2s are no big thing.
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Yeah, 1-5 missiles often not really a problem, but 12 ? That’s why I think I need new tricks ….hehehe
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yeah they can also be outrun if launched at 10 miles. That launch sequence looks like it could be from multiple SA2 sites also. Like the 3 at start of many KTO campaigns NNW of Seoul. Does pilot and campaign level of difficulty settings apply here too? Lets see that acmi!
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Wow, how did you manage to dodge 12 missiles ? Can I ask you the acmi ? My skill need to be patched here lol…
yeah they can also be outrun if launched at 10 miles. That launch sequence looks like it could be from multiple SA2 sites also. Like the 3 at start of many KTO campaigns NNW of Seoul. Does pilot and campaign level of difficulty settings apply here too? Lets see that acmi!
Of course!
In less than 4 min, all missiles launched.
And of course, the ACMI can be downloaded HERE
A few tips used:
- You can use your ECMs if you stay away for 7-8 nm (Thats the BT Range of the Fan Song) to defeat first missiles. (the first 3 missiles in the ACMI)
- If you decide to enter in the “dead zone” you must evade them “kinematically”. You need to have visual contact with the missile, put it at 3-9 and hard turn when is near. You can see in ACMI 3:14 that I waited too much and I was near to be killed.
- Continue “dancing with sams” until after 12 there is no more launches.
- It is relatively easy to do this with SA-2, 3, 4 and 5.
- Try to learn how to to this without going “to the weeds” to evade them. May be a Flak Trap will be waiting for you…
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Okay, so you can dance with SAMs (and do it very well)
But since BMS is a simulator, the question remains: is it realistic?
I don’t think so… -
I don’t think so too. That’s why I said in my first post in this thread that this issue should be evaluated and corrected if is it possible.
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Downloading, thanks man. [emoji106]
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Okay, so you can dance with SAMs (and do it very well)
But since BMS is a simulator, the question remains: is it realistic?
I don’t think so…Nope it is not. As it is not possible to practice missile avoidance like we can in BMS. Whatever we do, there will always be ppl practicing passive cheat and it will always be possible to find weak points in model (weak points which also exist certainly IRL but that pilot can’t experiment the same way we does.)
We also haw to keep the “game play” balanced considering simulation weak points.
Having to wait 5 to 15min to get the launchers rearmed is maybe more realistic, but could break the campaign’s balance. Same story with the SAM deployment delay … If we implement a 30 to 120min delay after an SA6 has moved, what will be the result?
Users must understand that we can’t do everything the way we want or the way we like. It must stay balanced with other features (anti missile is also a good example … If we implement CM, we have also to implement CCM … etc …)
And if we implement the reload delays, there will be some ppl to complain because there is no loader 3D models, then, will complains about the fact that they are not animated …
So yes, it is something to consider … but will not necessarily be “fixed” as you suggest regardless of possible issues. It will have to be evaluated, and maybe postponed or abandoned.
EDIT: about missile avoidance, Molni has a good point about feedbacks some pilot had during Vietnam war. (See post below)
Nowadays, such pragmatic and empiric feedbacks do not really exist anymore and systems+missiles has been upgraded … -
Okay, so you can dance with SAMs (and do it very well)
But since BMS is a simulator, the question remains: is it realistic?
I don’t think so…Yes, it is. Kinematic defeat was possible even with F-4 during Vietnam. For F-16 even with AG config is a piece of cake defeat kinematically S-75/125. They are not so fast, their max G limit is very low and their smoke are very, very strong. You have to keep your calm and even the most basic jamming in Vietnam forced to use TT (three point guidance) which made impossible the leading guidance which makes more effective the evasive turns during the terminal phase.
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Okay, so you can dance with SAMs (and do it very well)
But since BMS is a simulator, the question remains: is it realistic?
I don’t think so…You think wrong. For us, it would take litteraly 5s per missile to make them unavoidable kinematically - and a ton of them are (SA-10, SA-11, even stuff like SA-8 or 9, or even MANPADS are very hard to defeat).
If the SA-2/3/4/5 are dodgeable it is because their max available G match what is published about them.
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We also haw to keep the “game play” balanced considering simulation weak points.
I agree. Using this aspect I do not understand why uses Falcon the very old and totally bad modeling values considering this factor… You just say what I’m keep saying since… Hm… Always…
Are too many holy weapons in database.Having to wait 5 to 15min to get the launchers rearmed is maybe more realistic, but could break the campaign’s balance.
Yes, but about 1 min or less is maybe too low. ~2 min would be more better. As I have said the “only single launch” helps strongly the Sz-75 (SA-2). A single SA-2 site currently can hold back a 3-4 ship AI flight while in RL after two volleys they have 0 fighting power.
Same story with the SAM deployment delay … If we implement a 30 to 120min delay after an SA6 has moved, what will be the result?
Readiness time of Kub as I can remember 5 or 15 min. The most problematic coding issues to determine where to stop and for how long.
As I can remember now in BMS4.33 every SAM can launch druing movement even Krug or Kub and of course they use their radars. Is no deployment modeling in BMS (or any Falcon) simply mobile SAMs now have any time eng. capability without stop. (This was the issue 4.32 because SAMs literally never stopped so SHORADs were literally 100% impotent…)
For correct deployment modeling SAM battalions should stick to a calculated geometry point based on combat unit locations, go there and stay at least for a minimal time. So should be a switch what forbids relocation for a time and also should be a limiter what prevents the relocation under a short distance because it would be pointless. With current (code?) and DB structure at least a very basic deployment modeling is not possible as I can judge.
And if we implement the reload delays, there will be some ppl to complain because there is no loader 3D models, then, will complains about the fact that they are not animated …
Not because of the 3D models rather to be destroyed the reloaded missiles in storage. But in DB always the platfrom “carries” all the missiles and weapons.
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You think wrong. For us, it would take litteraly 5s per missile to make them unavoidable kinematically - and a ton of them are (SA-10, SA-11, even stuff like SA-8 or 9, or even MANPADS are very hard to defeat).
If the SA-2/3/4/5 are dodgeable it is because their max available G match what is published about them.
SA-5 is very alt. dependent. At med-low, yes it is with max. 10G. At high 20k+ feet where it comes with M4.0+ at longer range you do not have chance regardless only of max. 10G, especially after engien burnout. Without smoke trail…
SA-11 only without AG stores or risking the overload of your stores. You need very good timing, high spedd (450 CAS+).
SA-10 is impossible. It does not have smoke trail after the 8-10 sec engine operational time and you do not have the slightest idea about the launch in Falcon, you can just assume that launch happened after you see the ‘10’ mark on RWR scope. In RL this would be a bit different, because if besides the search radar you detect another very different narrow beam you can be sure missile is on the way. Nobody ever turn on the FCR if does not guide a missile…
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Assuming that your RWR is reliable enough to guarantee such detection.
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Nope it is not. As it is not possible to practice missile avoidance like we can in BMS. Whatever we do, there will always be ppl practicing passive cheat and it will always be possible to find weak points in model (weak points which also exist certainly IRL but that pilot can’t experiment the same way we does.)
We also haw to keep the “game play” balanced considering simulation weak points.
Having to wait 5 to 15min to get the launchers rearmed is maybe more realistic, but could break the campaign’s balance. Same story with the SAM deployment delay … If we implement a 30 to 120min delay after an SA6 has moved, what will be the result?
Users must understand that we can’t do everything the way we want or the way we like. It must stay balanced with other features (anti missile is also a good example … If we implement CM, we have also to implement CCM … etc …)
And if we implement the reload delays, there will be some ppl to complain because there is no loader 3D models, then, will complains about the fact that they are not animated …
So yes, it is something to consider … but will not necessarily be “fixed” as you suggest regardless of possible issues. It will have to be evaluated, and maybe postponed or abandoned.
EDIT: about missile avoidance, Molni has a good point about feedbacks some pilot had during Vietnam war. (See post below)
Nowadays, such pragmatic and empiric feedbacks do not really exist anymore and systems+missiles has been upgraded …Thanks Dee-Jay. Perfect explanation about that. I understand that point of view!
Thanks!