If I hate my EDTracker
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Yes - I currently use the POV hat (and prefer that for desk flying) and use a shift-key setup to switch the hat between POV and trim…which really screws me up when I get into a situation where I am flying a sim or trainer with a full visual system where the hat is for trim only and I can move my head to look - this is why I am so keyed on effects of muscle memory/training.
I also have shifted trim (and shifted DMS as I use that hat for padlock views). Though I don’t use physical sims, getting rid of the shifted stuff is one reason I’d like head tracking to work out for me.
I am building a full Viper pit, and what I want to do is build a 270 degree wrapping projection screen - 270 degrees should be sufficient based on how far I can move my head, and how fast the nose of the jet can be brought around in relation to where I can look. And I want my screen to run floor to ceiling…in which case restricting the EDTraker to vertical axis only should provide me more up look through my lift line while maintaining more natural head motion in most cases.
That setup sounds ideal - have you ruled out used a hat for up/down?
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That setup sounds ideal - have you ruled out used a hat for up/down?
Yes - I’d like to just use the EDTracker for vertical POV and have my trim hat in play strictly for trim…I want my HOTAS to be as true to life as possible once I have my pit built. One thing I may retain is double-click of my NWS/WPN STEP button to center my trims…“cheating”, but I do like that one, but I may find another more “realistic” button to move it to - like Paddle or Pinky. Kukki over on Viper Pits has just posted a screen setup very close to what I want to build - it isn’t as tall as I’d like mine but he may also know something about the projected FOV that I don’t know…yet. Not sure how he plans to use his EDTracker with his projectors/screen but it sure looks like it’s going to be sweet.
Since I’m using a Warthog stick I generally like to use CMS->down as my shift key. I also use a combination of CMS->down + Pinky to command ejection. “Squeeze the stick”, out you go! I can nix that too once I have an actual ejection handle…which I do…
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One thing I may retain is double-click of my NWS/WPN STEP button to center my trims…“cheating”, but I do like that one,
I noticed the real thing doesn’t have the center option - presumably in real life there’s always something causing the plane to not quite fly straight and level, unlike the sim.
Since I’m using a Warthog stick I generally like to use CMS->down as my shift key.
Not sure I understand - how do you trim if your thumb’s on CMS already?
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I noticed the real thing doesn’t have the center option - presumably in real life there’s always something causing the plane to not quite fly straight and level, unlike the sim.
I presume there is some way to do this in the real jet…perhaps with an FLCS RESET?..I’ll end up doing further research, but unless and until I can find a way it’s really done I’ll “cheat” it my way.
Not sure I understand - how do you trim if your thumb’s on CMS already?
I’ve learned the hard way to keep my thumb off of the CMS switch - I find it far too easy to inadvertently actuate the switch (especially on my Cougar; Ive programmed a slight delay into that one to make it react only to a positive actuation) and waste chaff or flare. What I use to center trim is the red button on the side of the stick - that’s the NWS button. Double-click that with my index finger and I’m trim-centered; double CMS ->down and the hat is trim, CMS -> down for greater than 0.5 sec returns to POV control.
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I presume there is some way to do this in the real jet…perhaps with an FLCS RESET?..I’ll end up doing further research, but unless and until I can find a way it’s really done I’ll “cheat” it my way.
I was thinking that in real life maybe there’s never a benefit to centering it, as you’re never in perfectly stable conditions. Just a hypothesis…
I’ve learned the hard way to keep my thumb off of the CMS switch - I find it far too easy to inadvertently actuate the switch (especially on my Cougar; Ive programmed a slight delay into that one to make it react only to a positive actuation) and waste chaff or flare. What I use to center trim is the red button on the side of the stick - that’s the NWS button. Double-click that with my index finger and I’m trim-centered; double CMS ->down and the hat is trim, CMS -> down for greater than 0.5 sec returns to POV control.
Oh I see - it’s two separate actions, not a press-while-hold thing. Might try that myself.
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I was thinking that in real life maybe there’s never a benefit to centering it, as you’re never in perfectly stable conditions. Just a hypothesis.
Oh, yes - in RL if you should get disoriented (like in the clouds) and you’ve over trimmed or heavy in an axis because you know you’ve done it, of if you think the flight controls are doing something goofy and you want to observe the problem develop to try and sort it out, reset of trim to zero and starting over is very useful.
OTOH, I learned in an college level Human Factors class that most RW training flight sims are designed to be “un-trimable”. Reason being that left to itself a stable airplane will just continue to fly along if you don’t disturb it. An experienced pilot will trim the sim to a stable state and then sit back and let the airplane fly itself…and thus won’t actually learn anything from the simulation. So in a real training situation the idea is to constantly perturb the state and force the trainee to always be flying.
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Nope, no auto reset of trim in the jet. You gotta center the knobs yourself. Pitch and roll are motorised so you could do it with the stick or the knobs, yaw is not motorised so knobs only.
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…now I’m going to have to look up something about another jet…
…I guess you can look over your shoulder at the MAN TRIM panel and get a bead on it…I think I’m gonna keep “cheating” it.
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Under the shoulder, not over.
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Depends on if you want to take your hand off the throttle…I think…I’ll find out once my pit is done and I have some proper ergonomics. Really looking forward to seeing how one of these Viper-things fits.
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Judging by where the edge of the ACES II is in relation to that panel, Ill be impressed if you can keep your hands on the throttle and stick and also glance over your shoulder at it.
Im expecting pics once your pit is done!!
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…and now you also see why I don’t care about more than a 270 degree screen…yeah - lots of pics. I may have to one day re-create my Viper Pits build thread over here.
BTW - on the visuals subject…over on VP Kukki has just posted pics of his screen build, which near to exactly what I want to build. So I got more ideas for building it.
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Nope, still completely disagree with you on your projection choice! Not my pit though, so to each their own.
Glancing over your shoulder backwards, sure. Glancing over your shoulder to look at something directly below your shoulder? You would need to be triple jointed…
…Anyway. Not sure what the benefit of a reset to center button is, other than during your ramp start - in which case you might as well use the knobs.
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Again, I’ve never had a seat in a real Viper pit, and won’t come anywhere even close until I get mine built…so…no telling where I’ll look or how. And I still don’t believe you can physically look dead six in a Viper…
Reset of trim to neutral on a single button press has sorted me out more than once in a few RL trainers. Very handy.
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Well, guess we should alert the USAF, get them to remove the instructions on how to do just that from the AFTTP 3-3v5 then.
Perfectly neutral trim isnt essential. What would make instantaneous trim reset useful? Those are the two reasons I can think of to want a button - perfect neutral, or fast neutral.
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Guess we should…all I know is that I can’t get my neck around that far, so for purposes of my own sim it’s pointless.
Primary reason for being able to zero trim fast is if you become disoriented in zero-zero conditions…at least it’s been the primary reason I’ve used it. You you are totally white-out and you’ve screwed up your trim the heavy stick will only further add to the disorientation. Lots of times during my trainer sessions I find that the console operators will like to mess with you once they learn you can fly…throwing you into a solid cloud layer or pitch dark while in an unusual attitude or during a dynamic maneuver is one of their more “go-to” tricks…that’s when I will generally opt to zero trim if I find I can’t get my stick under control.
And it could be that being able to do this this is more useful with a center stick which actually displaces and gets heavy rather than something like the Viper’s kinethetic side stick. Dunno…but I do still use zero-trim with BMS/FAF. Usually rolling out to final - I like to start from zero to capture trim for landing, as I find it far easier/faster to capture and maintain on-speed that way. Navy habit…maybe. But it works for me.
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Hmm. I dont trim for final. I tend to prefer the nose low trim that requires back pressure to hold the desired speed. Same goes for tanking or fingertip.
I dont see how getting thrown suddenly into an unusual attitude with zero vis requires an instant zeroing of the trim. With a stick that gets forces on it, sure. Not so much with a stick that has a constant reaction force equal and opposite to the applied force.
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I’ve made it part of my pre-take off checks to reset the tims (pinky - pickle on my Dunc_DX cougar setup) ever since that nasty accident at Albacete that was apparently caused by an accidental trim setting.
All the best, Uwe
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Hmm. I dont trim for final. I tend to prefer the nose low trim that requires back pressure to hold the desired speed. Same goes for tanking or fingertip.
I dont see how getting thrown suddenly into an unusual attitude with zero vis requires an instant zeroing of the trim. With a stick that gets forces on it, sure. Not so much with a stick that has a constant reaction force equal and opposite to the applied force.
I always trim for/to on-speed…it makes on-speed far easier to maintain; set attitude, maintain attitude, fly throttle - which is how it’s taught in RL. But that’s likely my “Navy” habit - all you Viper-primary drivers always land fast, and are usually fast over the round-down during your CV approaches from the screenshots/vids I’ve seen. Problem is that I’ve learned how to do this so well in BMS/FAF that’s it’s about totally ruined my technique in the trainers…so I’ve grounded myself with regards to BMS for a bit.
I don’t know that trim zeroing is “required”, but it’s sure saved my butt a number of times during RL trainer sessions…though I have managed to over-trim my FCC3 equipped Cougar and noted how you have to hold a force on it to counter that (if you don’t adjust for a power or configuration change)…in which case I simply double tap my NWS switch to null trim, and start over. I agree - it’s probably more of an impact with a center stick, but I find it useful in the Viper as well, particularly coming off the 90.
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I’ve made it part of my pre-take off checks to reset the tims (pinky - pickle on my Dunc_DX cougar setup) ever since that nasty accident at Albacete that was apparently caused by an accidental trim setting.
All the best, Uwe
Another nice use of the shifted function! I try not to use weapons release switches for anything but releasing weapons…and I’ve built some delay (0.5 sec) into my CMS switch to help prevent accidental activations.