Issues with DEAD missions during Campaign
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I keep restarting the dynamic campaign over and over because of a issue with the DEAD missions. Say i start the Korean Dynamic campaign in 4.33u1. I have a DEAD mission and the flight plan wants me to destroy enemy SA-2’s at waypoint 7. Problem is i get there and theirs no SA-2’s (usually no SAM’s at all) over waypoint 7….at least not on my HAD. Usually it’s just a search radar (“S” on the HAD). I initially thought the SA-2’s were inactive and trying to sucker me in so i pull a wild weasel and buzz the enemy airfield getting shot at by flack and other enemy ground fire. Still no SA-2’s show up. I eventually come to the conclusion that the SA-2 positions were not accurate in the briefing so i destroy the nearest SA-2’s to the target area. At that time I also give my AI wingman the command to “Attack Targets”. At the end of the mission the debriefing ALWAYS says that i failed and didn’t kill a single intended target. Mission status “Poor”. I didn’t kill a single SAM i was suppose to. My AI wingman on the other hand somehow does moderate damage to the SA-2’s.
I’ve started the Korean campaign over after 1 or 2 missions like 10x now bc of this.
I’ve tried different DEAD missions in the dynamic campaign as well…it’s hit or miss that this happens. Happens like 75% of the time. -
I have same problem in some cases; in most cases, that SA-2 was already taken by other flight before you arrive
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Hmm.
I suppose that makes sense. The 1st time I attempted playing the campaign and tried a DEAD mission I completed it with a “excellent” rating. At the time I flew completely out of sync with the flightplan time wise. I didn’t know how to view the airspeed I was suppose to fly to arrive at the briefing’s indicated “Time on Station/Time on Target”. The next day when I learned how to accurately fly the flight plan and arrive on the TA when I’m suppose to the issue with the SAM’s not being there really started. I didn’t arrive at the TA way ahead of schedule like I did before.Never occurred to me that I was failing DEAD missions due to AI destroying them for me before I got there. You’d think the mission wouldn’t be a instant failure if someone else destroyed your targets. Especially if you fly the flight plan almost perfectly. And Especially if you destroy 2x SA-2’s less than 10-15 miles away from the original TA.
Still feels like Im being trolled seeing as my AI wingman is getting points for killing SA-2’s I can’t find either with my HAD or just using the seeker head of my HARM missiles.
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I have same problem in some cases; in most cases, that SA-2 was already taken by other flight before you arrive
Are the SAM’s radars or the module launchers the target of those DEAD missions?
I assume u use HARMs because you are talking about the locating the TGT on the HAD.
HARMs are not the best wpns for DEAD missions due to the little of its warhead and that you are only able to target the radar.
When I take a DEAD mission I normally try to take out, besides the radar if it is still active, the module launchers out the vehicles with whatever munition is suitable (CBU, GBUs, etc)
If when you get there someone had done the SEAD for you, that’s great. That way it would be easier to destroy (that’s what DEAD is all about) the launchers.
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The mission targets both bc my wingman gets credit for somehow taking out SA-2 launchers (even tho he only has HARM’s and air to air missiles…no idea how he’s destroying them). I assumed initially that the major target was the radars bc the default loadout only armed the F-16 for taking out the Spoon Rest’s/Low Blow’s (whatever the SA-2 radars are called).
I’m using the loadout the campaign mission gives me…which is 4x air to air missiles and 2x HARMS along with the HAD and a jammer pod.Coincidently I’ve tried marking the locations of the SA-2 launchers in the recon with target steer points and strafing them with my gun. Didn’t work and I quickly ran out of rounds as expected.
I’ll try making a custom WPN loadout to include the targeting pod and replacing 2 of the air to air missiles with GBU’s and see what happens. -
Well i tried using the targeting pod and some GBU-38’s. I created target waypoints in the recon screen for the SA-2 launchers. Even with the waypoints i could not find the SA-2 launchers even with the TGP. Tried in WHOT, BHOT, and TV. Nothing there. I dropped my GBU-38’s on the target waypoints just in case. I destroyed nothing.
This is getting annoying -
Well i tried using the targeting pod and some GBU-38’s. I created target waypoints in the recon screen for the SA-2 launchers. Even with the waypoints i could not find the SA-2 launchers even with the TGP. Tried in WHOT, BHOT, and TV. Nothing there. I dropped my GBU-38’s on the target waypoints just in case. I destroyed nothing.
This is getting annoyingDid you Cursor Zero? If “CZ” is highlighted in the FCR/HSD/TGP, you have introduced a delta to the steerpoint. Pushing CZ on the MFD or via the HOTAS will remove the delta. A cursor delta will affect where the TGP looks and where the bombs fly to.
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dadunn this might help. don’t get to annoyed, AI might just be doing their job.
you can check ai target list before setting up your flight to make sure its not already being targeted.
and also right before takeoff hit cancel and recon your target again. if some targets have been destroyed already then you can adjust your target list.
if the targets are all destroyed then you should scrap that flight and move on to next target area.try going to ATO (its the notebook by the OOBtank on the opposite end of the take off button)and clicking “show all packages” then look at the SEAD and DEAD flights and click their boxes to show them on the map.
yes it can be annoying to fly over a hundred miles to a target the doesn’t exist so i always plan on secondary targets in case i miss my primary.
even if i fail my mission i still advance the campaign. -
Did you Cursor Zero? If “CZ” is highlighted in the FCR/HSD/TGP, you have introduced a delta to the steerpoint. Pushing CZ on the MFD or via the HOTAS will remove the delta. A cursor delta will affect where the TGP looks and where the bombs fly to.
Thanks for the suggestion. But yes my cursor is zero’d. I make sure to hit “CZ” sporadically when using the TGP.
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dadunn this might help. don’t get to annoyed, AI might just be doing their job.
you can check ai target list before setting up your flight to make sure its not already being targeted.
and also right before takeoff hit cancel and recon your target again. if some targets have been destroyed already then you can adjust your target list.
if the targets are all destroyed then you should scrap that flight and move on to next target area.try going to ATO (its the notebook by the OOBtank on the opposite end of the take off button)and clicking “show all packages” then look at the SEAD and DEAD flights and click their boxes to show them on the map.
yes it can be annoying to fly over a hundred miles to a target the doesn’t exist so i always plan on secondary targets in case i miss my primary.
even if i fail my mission i still advance the campaign.Thanks for the reply. I’m new to BMS so I’m still trying to grasp some things about the mission editor and editing flights. F-16 itself came pretty easily as far as learning the systems I needed. Used to flying the A-10c in DCS.
Anyways I’m not sure how to add secondary targets to the AI generated missions in the campaign. Right now I’m just letting the AI sort and create the missions and, if needed, I’ll adjust the weapons loadout and flight path to better suit my needs.In the very beginning of the campaign all I see is DEAD flights and afew air to air flights. Majority DEAD with no SEAD…and I usually accept the very 1st mission posted in the mission schedule.
Literally haven’t gotten past the 1st few AI hours of the campaign. I hear you on advancing the campaign regardless of mission outcome. But this has been a case of me wondering if I’m doing something wrong or if theirs a glitch…either way just wanting to know if it’s me and if it’s something I can fix. Like you said it Kinda sucks to fly missions knowing your going to fail even though you execute exactly according to the flight plan. Especially when your AI wingman gets credit for destroying SA-2 launchers you can’t find.Coincidentally I tried the middle campaign in the Korean theatre and even tho the SAM radars might have been destroyed the SAM launchers were exactly where I placed my target steer points. They were clear as day on my TGP. Whereas previously flying the top Korean campaign no SAM launchers would show up on the TGP while cycling through the tgt steers. Had me thinking it was a glitch.
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At least you are completing missions. I have flown under 10 DEAD missions so far in the campaign and have not made it back once. On one mission my wingman and I took out two radars. Then got jumped by a Mig-29. I couldn’t get out of dogfight mode because of a profile issue and got hosed. Lately my steer points have been taking me through SA-5s. I don’t have enough chaff or HARMS to get through to the target. Maybe I should just take those SA-5s out and head home.
Right now I am wondering why the ATO is assigning two ship DEAD missions in Iron Fortress. Is this realistic? I’d like to add another two ship. Maybe I should check the box for unlimited chaff until I can figure this thing out.
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Do you not edit/move the sp`s ? The auto generated flight path can usually be improved. SA5 though has such a huge range they will still be same threat. Good news its so easy to defeat.
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Do you not edit/move the sp`s ? The auto generated flight path can usually be improved. SA5 though has such a huge range they will still be same threat. Good news its so easy to defeat.
So true. The AI creates some kamikaze flight paths and missions sometimes…thats for sure. In some cases you HAVE to edit the flight plan otherwise it’s like a game of duck hunt for the enemy SAM’s that your flying directly over to get to the target area.
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Thanks for the suggestions. I’ve been playing around with the flight path. For some missions there are not too many alternatives, especially if there are SA-5s involved. I’ve been playing around with the mission commander. There are occasions when assigning a two ship to SEAD/DEAD just won’t do. I am going to try a flight a four - two loaded with HARMs and the others loaded with CBUs or GBU-39. I haven’t figured out how to using the GBU-39s with proficiency yet so I am wondering if my AI element will be effective with taking out the erector/launchers.
If I want a greater chance of them hitting the right targets do designate the erector/launchers as steer points or weapons steer point. Steer points show up in the DTC, but weapon steer points do not.
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normal “steer points” are for the gps location for jdam, and “weapon steer point” for some others like spice bombs.
study the Israel Theater training manual for weapon steerpoint example with spice deployment mission.
i am not familiar with other ordinance that uses weapon steer points but the spice works for me in ITO
and jsows are great for long range sam attacks they will fly at least 30+ miles to a pre set “steer point”
forget the agm 88 if you already know where the fan song or radar array is. just drop a winged bomb from afar.control of your own squadron is usually lest costly and more productive the AIs suicide runs. to undo hq control you can use mission commander or just this game option
intel - squadron - unclick green box to grey
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normal “steer points” are for the gps location for jdam, and “weapon steer point” for some others like spice bombs.
study the Israel Theater training manual for weapon steerpoint example with spice deployment mission.
i am not familiar with other ordinance that uses weapon steer points but the spice works for me in ITO
and jsows are great for long range sam attacks they will fly at least 30+ miles to a pre set “steer point”
forget the agm 88 if you already know where the fan song or radar array is. just drop a winged bomb from afar.control of your own squadron is usually lest costly and more productive the AIs suicide runs. to undo hq control you can use mission commander or just this game option
intel - squadron - unclick green box to grey
Thanks for the suggestion. Adjusting the steer points have helped. Especially when I get hosed and try to run the mission again. I usually adjust away from the threat. I’m starting to use the steer points for JDAMs. I was able to hit one target on my first mission. I am not sure why the other three did not hit.
I usually have the SMS page up. Pickle, switch SP, and then pickle again. I did not notice if the subsequent GBU-38s had a RDY indication. I’ll do that the next time. I attacked fixed targets so the targets should not have moved. I also did not change the profile on the weapons. Maybe I need to delve into that a little more.
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hello B2Blain
gbu 39s are great winged bombs that can fly to an exact GPS loc. same as jdams but from a safe distance from the target. no need to check if its armed, you can turn these on at the runway and they will stay on. then just hit pickle for each dtc “steer point” when in range. your target piper will show at 30-40miles from first dtc steer point. the f15 will carry 28 of these bad boys. you can take out every piece of a sam batallion and then some with one pass haul ass from 30miles away at 30000 feet.
note that dtc steer points stop after 24 and start back at 81 (you will notice this if you carry 28 gbu39s) When i set my targets in the dtc i usually start with 15 and then when i get to 24, the next number is 81. no biggy, In the air i shift-P and hit s 57 times to get to my next target which is 81 -
When i set my targets in the dtc i usually start with 15 and then when i get to 24, the next number is 81. no biggy, In the air i shift-P and hit s 57 times to get to my next target which is 81
Try this procedure Mate… might relieve a bit of finger fatigue…
From default DED…
Press 4 (STPT)
Press 81 (on ICP)
Press ENTR (on ICP) -
hello B2Blain
gbu 39s are great winged bombs that can fly to an exact GPS loc. same as jdams but from a safe distance from the target. no need to check if its armed, you can turn these on at the runway and they will stay on. then just hit pickle for each dtc “steer point” when in range. your target piper will show at 30-40miles from first dtc steer point. the f15 will carry 28 of these bad boys. you can take out every piece of a sam batallion and then some with one pass haul ass from 30miles away at 30000 feet.
note that dtc steer points stop after 24 and start back at 81 (you will notice this if you carry 28 gbu39s) When i set my targets in the dtc i usually start with 15 and then when i get to 24, the next number is 81. no biggy, In the air i shift-P and hit s 57 times to get to my next target which is 81I love the DEAD missions. Now that I figured out how to employ the GBU-39 its a lot of fun. I was bringing my wingman along with with a pair of HARMS to suppress and if possible take out the radars, but I find that by the time the SAM radars come up its time to pickle the SDBs. Pickling 8 weapons while advancing steer points is lot of work. Sometimes I drop two on one target or miss one.
I think thing that I need to learn is how to get my wingman to hit targets too. Maybe use the data links? I need to research that more.