Seriously impressed!
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Each of default BMS keyfiles already have complete setup for HOTAS COUGAR users, BMS - Full.key also has complete setup for 2x COUGAR MFD. It’s really user friendly like as DCS:A-10C - has complete HOTAS setup for HOTAS WARTHOG by default.
HOTAS WARTHOG user will also have full functional HOTAS setup for there stick by default as its DX number order is as same as that of COUGAR, but will not see correct(EDIT:sorry I meant “suitable” as there is no “correct” setup for WH as it was never F-16 replica) setup for the throttle, CH/Saitek user will never see suitable setup by default so they must setup there joysticks. Its also same for DCS:A-10C, it should have blank setup for any other joysticks than WARTHOG too.However, Even though BMS is not different from current flightsims at this point, I have seen many people who are already familiar with flightsims - some of them even plays DCS not only FC3 but also some clickable cockpit modules, got an interest in BMS, but they give up when it comes to setup BMS HOTAS and stops there.
They think they can’t find out essential key to bind when they see so long scroll-able callbacks table before they find what all they need to bind are in TQS and STICK section. Some of them might have not found the table is divided by F-16 cockpit panel section.
Even after they completed there setup they find there setup will be gone when they add/forgot to connect some devices and this eliminates there motivation. Yes we have DeviceSorting.txt now but they don’t notice it until I explain. They get so shocked when they first see his setup gone.Really sad to see such a case as its rare to meet active BMS wingmen who can fly same timezone.
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The user must modify the keyfile DX bindings for it to be functional.
What I am saying is that in that case the user shall modify the joystick DX binding rather than the keystroke . This is why joystick softwares are designed and provided with the stick
PROGRAM theJOYSTICK to match the KEYFILE , NOT the opposite!
Is that more clear ?
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At which point, we are using keystrokes, not DX.
A few noteworthy exceptions aside, most joysticks are unable to modify their DX bindings. BMS can, and has a very useful keyfile system for that express purpose.
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At which point, we are using keystrokes, not DX.
A few noteworthy exceptions aside, most joysticks are unable to modify their DX bindings. BMS can, and has a very useful keyfile system for that express purpose.
Are you saying that SST or HUD are unable to change the joystick DX bindings ???
I was not aware of those shitty joystick , time to complain to saitek for that !!!
Ok so what you are suggesting is that for every joystick on the market , we should include a KEYFILE with proper DX binding that matches the joystick config ?
I thought it was what he did already with the profiles included in default install.
Note again I am talking DX only , keystroke shall be prohibited at all costs
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I am saying that SST is unable to change the joystick DX bindings. I was surprised when I discovered TM software could.
I am not suggesting that you should include extra keyfiles. It would be infeasible, and would not work for many joysticks well anyway.
The profiles in the main install, I have not most of the sticks, and have not examined them. I would personally just suggest people modify their keyfiles as appropriate to their stick, ensuring they have access to the HOTAS commands.
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I am saying that SST is unable to change the joystick DX bindings. I was surprised when I discovered TM software could.
I am not suggesting that you should include extra keyfiles. It would be infeasible, and would not work for many joysticks well anyway.
The profiles in the main install, I have not most of the sticks, and have not examined them. I would personally just suggest people modify their keyfiles as appropriate to their stick, ensuring they have access to the HOTAS commands.
Well the main complain is about setup beeing difficult , and people would prefer their joystick to work out of the box
The only way to do that is to create as many keyfiles necessary in BMS default install adapted to each joystick
I am talking DX binding only , all the rest would be identical
I don’t think it would be difficult…how many joysticks commonly on the market , 10 maybe ?
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What I am saying is that in that case the user shall modify the joystick DX binding rather than the keystroke . This is why joystick softwares are designed and provided with the stick
PROGRAM theJOYSTICK to match the KEYFILE , NOT the opposite!
Is that more clear ?
Mav-jp, thats much much more hard things to advice for new comers unless wright down how each F-16 HOTAS switches relate to DX order setup on preset keyfiles to BMS-Manual or TO-BMS1F-16CM-34-1-1 for next update, we can’t say “RTFM” with current manual anymore than.
1.Start with a 4.33 keyfile. Do not use 4.32 keyfile.
2.Do Not change keystrokes setups on keyfile unless you are familiar with BMS.
3.Setup DX bindings from BMS CONTROL setup page as written on BMS-Manual.
–-3.1. If your joystick does not have enough number of DX buttons or HAT swithces, use your joystick driver to emulate keyboard to add shift buttons, without changing BMS keyfile.These rules are enough for newbie advice without updating manuals for 4.33.3.
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Well the main complain is about setup beeing difficult , and people would prefer their joystick to work out of the box
The only way to do that is to create as many keyfiles necessary in BMS default install adapted to each joystick
I am talking DX binding only , all the rest would be identical
I don’t think it would be difficult…how many joysticks commonly on the market , 10 maybe ?
I had same idea. Preparing “BMS - TM Warthog.key” “BMS - CH Products.key” “BMS - Saitek X56.key” etc. to came with installation of BMS, may solve the problem. Which will be not perfect for each person but good starting point for new comers until they find there best settings for themselves after they came familiar with BMS. Also I would like to update DeviceDefault.txt which seems lacking some comon joysticks.
keyfiles must only contain F-16 HOTAS and not things like FOV change/track IR center etc. Just like current keyfiles are for COUGAR. I can make a keyfile and DeviceDefaults.txt for Warthog and TUSBA R1, other community member might be able to help this idea by creating keyfiles for other devices they own.
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I was not aware of those shitty joystick , time to complain to saitek for that !!!
Then it is also time to complain to 99% of joysticks produced in history. Being able to change the DX output is a rarity. Foxy, TARGET, and CH managed are the only ones I know. It takes a sheltered flight sim career to not have experienced the limits of the most common joysticks.
Ok so what you are suggesting is that for every joystick on the market , we should include a KEYFILE with proper DX binding that matches the joystick config ?
Not at all. What is commonly done is to take fixed joystick output and have game conform binding to it. It wouldn’t be practical to issue simple DX bound key files even if you wanted to. Most joysticks can’t be bound 1:1 with the F-16 HOTAS due to lack of buttons. X-52s and the like practically require a profile with (hopefully minimal) keystroke emulation.
I thought it was what he did already with the profiles included in default install.
Key files designed to be used with “naked” default controller input are not distributed with BMS except for Cougar which is funny because it is also in the default key file as well. I’m surprised the Warthog doesn’t have a premade packaged. Most joysticks require some kind of profile along with a key file as well. Perhaps this is a good time to construct some pre-mades to be included in he next release.
What I have found however is that universal solutions aren’t universal. I’ve helped enough people with 0 hours flying that INSISTED on specific control features for their setup. Sometimes they have a good reason but sometimes it’s just because their mind is made up. Some people have TrackIR, some don’t. Some have pedals, some don’t. Some will scream bloody murder if they don’t have some obscure cockpit clickable command on HOTAS. Some want TeamSpeak PTT keys. Some have no interest in multiplayer-oriented controls like UHF/VHF transmit. Some just want “chaff n’ flare” keys and won’t listen to what CMS is. It’s a minefield.
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The folks who complain the system is too hard, are the folks who cant be bothered reading a short manual explaining in detail how to set it up, quickly and painlessly (thanks Kolbe!).
Are these folks going to be bothered to read a much longer manual about how to fly the jet? Are they going to read a manual explaining how to operate the avionics? Of course not. Instead, they will complain how BMS is too hard, and agitate for brief tutorial videos that give the Cliff’s Notes version of operation (Thanks to those few who have done so, without putting major errors into their tuition).
Seriously - not having immediate access to a personalised profile based on your exact controller, out of the box? Its a non-issue.
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Seriously - not having immediate access to a personalised profile based on your exact controller, out of the box? Its a non-issue.
Actually, thanks to people who post their setups on the forum, you kind of do… that’s how I did it, thanks to Morphine. Not to mention those in the install. I should put mine for the Warthog in the install too one of these days.
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Seriously - not having immediate access to a personalised profile based on your exact controller, out of the box? Its a non-issue.
I think that’s not the core of the problem, Actually.
Any sims require joysticks setup, its same for DCS,IL-2,FSX etc.
However, I have seen that sometimes even simmers who can handle another aircraft than F-16 gives up his setup when it came to BMS. I guessed several reasons in former post. than I thought having several presets are good solution to solve them, my reason was not mainly to use joysticks out of the box. so If Mav-jp were to suggest same idea I’ll on his side. Perhaps reason he suggested the idea was different from mine though.Anyway if its not possible, I’ll give up the idea and I only continue to advice people when they need it.
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I started with Dunc’s keyfile OOTB and gradually modified it until I was keyfile literate, then I made my own from scratch.
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However, I have seen that sometimes even simmers who can handle another aircraft than F-16 gives up his setup when it came to BMS.
Which other aircraft, though? My housemate flies the F-22 competently on HAWX. He stays away from BMS because he is not interested in the study required.
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One flies MiG-21 on DCS and was also an real racer, another flies B747 on FSX and F-15 on FC3, another flies A-10C and M2000 on DCS… Fortunately, I was familiar with them and could gave them some advice.
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well, only the last one has any indication that they have the wherewithal to study for a flight sim. Im glad they stuck around following your advice!
Do they actively seek out and study new things within the sim to improve themselves? Or is it a case that they are stuck at the level you left them at?
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Everytime i see a discussion about keyfiles, DX bindings, etc…i think i missed something because it doesn´t appear to be as complicated as discussions imply… I have an X52 non-pro. I used to use Kesmonkey´s awesome profile back in the days of 4.32…even helped him tweak it and fix some bugs. Since 4.33 came out, i gave up using SST and new drivers/software from Saitek because they mess everything up with each update (detailed explanation found in Saitek thread unde Joystick and Input Devices). I took the excel spreadsheet available under Docs, started to work with it until it made sense, created an all DX keyfile using defaults for X52 and it is PERFECT. I only use SST for the Radar Cursors. That´s the only mapping still in there.
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MiG-21 guy seems enjoyed learning avionics of F-16, He was tweeting about it, after I adviced him on TS to look for TQS and STICK section at SETUP page. He said he surprised that western bloc fighter F-16 has much more advanced avionics than his soviet russian MIG, which was his humor of cource;)
B747 guy have just learned and understood RAMP, he said he don’t have trackIR and good HOTAS joystick so I simply suggested him to look for any presets on this forum. Seems someones setup helped him.
for Last A-10C guy I don’t know his current status. In his case he already completed BMS setup, he said he is interested in Block52 avionics. Few days ago he lost his setup. He said he feel losing his motivation as it happened. I told him that there is DeviceSorting.txt in current version so You only have to run BMS with same device setup everytime. He said thanks.
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Everytime i see a discussion about keyfiles, DX bindings, etc…i think i missed something because it doesn´t appear to be as complicated as discussions imply… I have an X52 non-pro. I used to use Kesmonkey´s awesome profile back in the days of 4.32…even helped him tweak it and fix some bugs. Since 4.33 came out, i gave up using SST and new drivers/software from Saitek because they mess everything up with each update (detailed explanation found in Saitek thread unde Joystick and Input Devices). I took the excel spreadsheet available under Docs, started to work with it until it made sense, created an all DX keyfile using defaults for X52 and it is PERFECT. I only use SST for the Radar Cursors. That´s the only mapping still in there.
You know, you can get away from using the SST for the cursors, also - but you have to make some registry changes, as well as effectively making your twist rudder not work.
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What I am saying is that in that case the user shall modify the joystick DX binding rather than the keystroke . This is why joystick softwares are designed and provided with the stick
PROGRAM theJOYSTICK to match the KEYFILE , NOT the opposite!
Is that more clear ?
Yes and with other later posts, even better. I understand and agree. Thanks.
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I am talking DX binding only , all the rest would be identical
I don’t think it would be difficult…how many joysticks commonly on the market , 10 maybe ?
…. It wouldn’t be practical to issue simple DX bound key files even if you wanted to. … Perhaps this is a good time to construct some pre-mades to be included in he next release. …
Kolbe’s excellent keyfile spreadsheet is about 95% of the way there for common HOTAS/Sticks. He includes default DX binds, reasonably laid out given any limitations of a particular HOTAS, that can be easily appended to any of the default keyfiles (Full, Basic, PitBuilder, Minimum, etc.).
…. What I have found however is that universal solutions aren’t universal. I’ve helped enough people with 0 hours flying that INSISTED on specific control features for their setup. Sometimes they have a good reason but sometimes it’s just because their mind is made up. Some people have TrackIR, some don’t. Some have pedals, some don’t. Some will scream bloody murder if they don’t have some obscure cockpit clickable command on HOTAS. Some want TeamSpeak PTT keys. Some have no interest in multiplayer-oriented controls like UHF/VHF transmit. Some just want “chaff n’ flare” keys and won’t listen to what CMS is. It’s a minefield.
:rofl: Ain’t that the truth.