AAR - Quick-Flow?
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That is my understanding also, yes.
Oh.
Well perhaps I’m wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.
Time to search docs and forum, I guess.
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If you are flying in the correct on-deck position you will be cleared direct to contact. If you are cleared to pre-contact first your position isn’t quite right.
The video I posted in the
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Awesome, thanks for confirming that Darkman!
I’m currently flying closer to the lead aircraft, to the point that he probably scratches my paint with his missile when he banks right. I’m also flying a bit behind him. Maybe I’m way too close for the tanker guy to be happy? This does work regardless of tanker aircraft (KC-10 or KC-135), right?
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Sounds like you’re probably a bit too close indeed. Pause that video at 6m 36s and compare sight pictures vs. the guy on the boom so you know what you need to do differently.
Type of tanker aircraft makes no difference.
For bonus points try to fly on-deck in multiplayer. That really gets the adrenaline going when the v.pilot before you comes off the boom, calls ‘done refuelling’ and the tanker ‘jumps’ as your PC takes over local control of the tanker. It is a risk; you look amazing when you pull it off, but if the tanker doesn’t cooperate you end up needing a change of underwear
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Challenge accepted!
I didn’t really know what was the distance needed, so I decided to get in as close as I can. I didn’t know there was such a thing as “too close.”
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Found this one from last year which might be a bit more helpful, as it’s in 4.33 this time:
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Found this one from last year which might be a bit more helpful, as it’s in 4.33 this time:
And got connection in the turn……impressive
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Thanks Darkman! The on-deck position looks much, much safer than where I was positioning my aircraft!
Are you using a custom TrackIR profile there? I’ve found it much easier to tank when I pause my TrackIR, but I’m thinking of making a profile that just has a bigger center deadzone.
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And DONE!! Well, not the MP part, but being on-deck and being cleared straight in. Sweet!!
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So is it simply a matter of being stable in that particular position (relative to your wingman and the tanker) that allows you to bypass the pre-contact position? Is that right?
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Yes.
From the T.O. BMS1F-16CM**-1** chapter on Refuelling (page 160-):
The On-Deck position is normally flown as a route (left echelon) formation with approximately 10 feet spacing from the refuelling aircraft.
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The second receiver moves from the On-Deck position to the pre-contact or contact position as directed by the tanker (if the On-Deck formation was being flown correctly he would be cleared straight to contact). -
@T.O.:
The On-Deck position is normally flown as a route (left echelon) formation with approximately 10 feet spacing from the refuelling aircraft.
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The second receiver moves from the On-Deck position to the pre-contact or contact position as directed by the tanker (if the On-Deck formation was being flown correctly he would be cleared straight to contact).Shouldnt that just be a left echelon formation then? If its a 10 feet spacing, its not route.
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Problem is gauging how much is 10 feet of spacing… is there a max range? ie, 10-20 feet?
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At formation distances like that you need at least two visual cues which form intersecting lines providing a fix in space. Route is a formation spacing more than a formation shape but often route also implies a single or very few possible shapes. I’d call that fingertip echelon to use the MCH vernacular. A stray thought is that route is up to 500’ spacing which includes being the exact same distance as fingertip, the difference being the allowance to increase distance.
One thing to keep in mind is that the on deck aircraft conducts the breakaway with respect to the receiver while anyone else breaks away with respect to the tanker. The on deck aircraft’s positioning should be compatible with a safe breakaway.
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Any suggestions what could be used for cues??
One thing to keep in mind is that the on deck aircraft conducts the breakaway with respect to the receiver while anyone else breaks away with respect to the tanker. The on deck aircraft’s positioning should be compatible with a safe breakaway.
You lost me there, Frederf. Plain English version?
I managed to figure out how to take decent video from my monitor setup so here’s a little Quick Flow success, around 5 minutes into the video. Whoohoo!!
Annoyingly, it went up to 5K resolution on YouTube but now it only goes up to 1440… I wonder what gives?
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If anyone flies within 10’ of me EVERYONE WILL DIE! Lol
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I’ve heard put the AMRAAM tip on (or just under) the pilot’s helmet or the bare rail on the ejection warning triangle for bearing line. That narrows it down to a single degree of freedom. Longitudinal position I don’t have an official factoid but I’d say somewhere abeam the root of the nozzle feathers up to the air notch between the vertical tail and the fuselage. I mocked it up in photoshop. That should leave 10’ lateral room rail to rail. Now to crosscheck my gray matter against the BEM. “Rail tip (or missile forward fins) half way between ECS duck and forward edge of intake and square with the trailing edge of the nozzle.” I used quote marks but by no means is that verbatim. Not bad. My description had you more forward (and thus closer lateral) and stepped down slightly more but outside of the Thunderbirds I doubt any lead would notice which you used.
As for break away or break out that’s when there’s an immediate need for (usually vertical) separation for safety of flight. It’s a pretty big deal for AAR safety understandably. Anyway if tanker and receiver have to break away the various other aircraft are assigned to follow either the receiver or other tanker. On deck is in the same group as the receiver so during a breakaway maintain formation off receiver. Receiver (and on deck in formation with) breaks out low and tanker (and all those in formation with) break out high.
As an aside minimum separation for route is 2 ship widths.
While it is 10’ of wingtip lateral spacing actual corresponding parts of each aircraft are 63’ apart. It’s not as hard as the distance figure would indicate.
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I have got MP succesful quick flow sometime but I always wondered, does it matter how long the preceding AC takes to call top off? If he moves away too much before calling. My guess is that the only important thing -code wise- is your on deck position relative to the boom when he calls Y3?
Cheers
Tulkas