How many of us MP BMS guys (and gals?) are there anyways?
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As I was flying wing to Pedro in a squad mission last week, I was pondering on just how many of us online MP BMS guys are out there that do what we do?
Is there any way to estimate based upon a percentage of BMS FORUMS membership that fly online together?
Im thinking a few thousand MP and maybe as many or more SP?
Are we growing, decreasing or holding over the last 5 years or so?
Demographics and geographic of our membership might be interesting.
And if you think we aren’t a small genre and community, massively multiplayer MOBA/RPG field millions of players and billions of annual revenue. Ever try to explain what this hobby is in any kind of detail to someone outside our little band of brothers? As for sisters, do we have any?
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It’s a really interesting line of questions. I keep hoping that younger people will get bored of their consoles and the new “pay to win” oops I mean “free to play” games and simulations will make a comeback. Don’t get me wrong I’ve enjoyed playing all sorts of games including World of Tanks, and I don’t wish them any ill. Nor do I care to have a ton of crappy new sims being developed, but if interest really picked up that could help BMS attain their goals and dreams sooner rather than later. Wouldn’t it be cool to have a new BMS division working on helos and another one on making ground vehicles and infantry all playable?
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Take a look at the wings - squadrons list. Take an average of 10 per squad…
There are and a few servers which are not squads but have some xxx unique members plus…
So for me are more than a thousand that MP.Oh and this was asked before.
sent from my mi5 using Tapatalk -
Not as many as there was 2 years ago. Were on a serious down hill slide.
I have some observations, but I think it will fall on deaf ears.
PS: One concern seems to have been addressed, server stability, all though we haven’t had more then 3 or 4 on for any length of time. But the server still up for a few months now and goes into pause when asked to.
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I have some observations, but I think it will fall on deaf ears.
I would like to hear your thoughts.
Even via PM if you think it would hurt some eyes. -
I think it’s a product of social media. People get bored too easily these days with their ADHD like attention spans. They wont dedicate themselves to the time it takes to become a pro. It takes years. Literally years to get to any level of professional looking flying. Everyone wants to jump in and think they can be the next Robin Olds without the work it takes to be him. So they fly hard for like 6 months and then you never hear from them again once they realize, hey this is going to be some work and the next meme on my phone says…… and he’s gone. :rolleyes:
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@theOden:
I would like to hear your thoughts.
Even via PM if you think it would hurt some eyes.Hi Oden
Ill reply here as I think its relevant to the topic.
Please don’t get me wrong, I love my Flight sims and have done so for almost 30 years & Falcon has truly been “The King of Flight Sims”, and the fact that we still have a group of people (BMS) still bringing improvements and modernization is a testimony to the original vision of Falcon 4.0 , Thank you, just don’t forget the casual simmer. We are people too.
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I think it’s a product of social media. People get bored too easily these days with their ADHD like attention spans. They wont dedicate themselves to the time it takes to become a pro. It takes years. Literally years to get to any level of professional looking flying. Everyone wants to jump in and think they can be the next Robin Olds without the work it takes to be him. So they fly hard for like 6 months and then you never hear from them again once they realize, hey this is going to be some work and the next meme on my phone says…… and he’s gone. :rolleyes:
My old mate Redshit, hope your well.
It’s obvious we don’t live in the same world you do, “Social media”, “ADHD”, “dedicate …. to become a pro”, “level of professional looking flying” & “next meme on my phone says… and he’s gone”
All of our crew were mature aged students and most “professional” in their own field of endeavour. Software engineers, IT pros, Solicitors, Pilots (military, commercial & private) some have army/navy back grounds, then there’s a few simple tradies like myself.
As for the younger members, their still here.Any way , some one just made a comment on facebook so I have to go now…:p
Reminds me of …
AUTHOR: Socrates (469–399 B.C.)
QUOTATION: The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. -
I just want to say that they’ve actually done this very well, that the RWR is a tool to aid in SA and it should be built long before from other sources such as your FCR, C2, ect. Reliance on the RWR is never going to give you all the info you need. Strong TTP with other SA building tools is what’s up. After enough intercepts you start to see it is still very reliable, just not the homing beacon that it used to be in 4.32. They’ve done a great job.
All of our crew were mature aged students and most “professional” in their own field of endeavour. Software engineers, IT pros, Solicitors, Pilots (military, commercial & private) some have army/navy back grounds, then there’s a few simple tradies like myself.
As for the younger members, their still here.I definitely agree a lot of your pilots were professionals outside of Falcon, lawyers, military, ect. But what I’m referring to is professionalism and discipline in standards. Too many rush to get to where they’re going in the jet. Way too much rushing. It even happens in my own wing and it causes mistakes. Then there is the “higher levels” of learning that the element is everything. Integrity of the element, the wing and the lead working together as one. It takes quite a bit of practice to be able to fly tactical form through intercepts, during air to ground attacks, ect. Everyone flies okay until there is an engagement (again I’m being super general) then it’s chaos all over the HSD. In our wing we really place a huge emphasis element integrity. Here’s an example of a lack of it:
Here is an example of solid mutual support during an intercept all the way to the merge:
Allowing us the ability to do this:
Damn deadly… You don’t see this at most VFWs because they want to just blow stuff up like you mentioned, well what if I told you, that by flying with discipline, you get to blow even MORE stuff up
That’s what I’m referring to, it takes about a year to get “good” and to get extremely good, years. That’s what I had meant. I hope to get more guys in my wing eventually who want to fly this way, so that one day we’ll have an entire crew of stone cold killers (who still screw it up from time to time, hey that makes for a good debrief).
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That actually is impressive Redshift20.
But since Falcon is primarily and entertainment software I would guess flying like in your first HSD might have more laughing pilotsWe (Dbond and I) just recently tried to get some activity stirred up around a 24/7 dedicated server running campaigns (set up very nicely by DBond) but having a hard time to attract e-pilots.
This is why I am very interested in Shadows observations.
We try to offer folks to fly lonewolf if not comfortable talking in a foreign language or with us in seperate flights or in our flights on or off IVC.
We do see alot of visitors reading our adventures (and failures) but very few actually bite and join the server.One common comment is “I need to do alot more training first” which we, being very far from professional (like your last example), just have to accept (and in all honesty, I do not think anyone else can harm our campaign more than I do ).
I used to also think it’s the instant gratitude of today that was to blame but seeing the interest the forum section sparked since DBond started to write his Odysee in there I’m not so sure anymore.
The interest is out there but what little extra is needed to push the decision over the last hurdle?
Is falcon MP too complicated?
Do everyone think one has to be overly professional speaking Brevity and flying wingtip-to-wingtip?
(we consider extremely close formation being within 10 miles )
It must be something stopping people to take that last jump.Me myself used to fly falcon-online but as it became too hard getting a amraam wall in my face and some flights very strict, I stopped.
But having the option of flying strict in a vertual wing or like nuts on our server one would think all options are out there.It could be as simple most falconeers are singleplayers, basta.
I don’t know. -
It requires just one thing: Dedication
And it’s the same in all aspect of life. Finding dedicated ppl is hardAnd yes, BMS becoming closer and closer to the reality doesn’t help to a certain extend.
It motivates even further the dedicated ppl, it scares the other ppl even more -
for me I think it could be the lack of ability to automate or simplify somethings if you want. For example, how bout an option to auto align your TGP and mavericks. I also find having to bother with trim after dropping bombs a hassle, how bout a single trim out the aircraft button. Same with data cartridges, there are many complicated multi-step procedures that while adding immersion can be a turn off to those who don’t want that levels of immersion that do not contribute to the main thing of putting weapons on target. Frankly, I just want to find targets on my scope lock them up and fire when in range, I don’t care about having to flip dozens of switches and dials or having to figure out which white box on the tgp in a town is a tank and which is a fruit stand. Also I find that most times I lose interest by the 3rd or 4th mission of a campaign when suddenly there are no more aircraft opposing me or SAMS left to fight you unless you fight along the tiny corridor between ai objectives, and I am basically working my way right toward Kim’s palace wiping every SAM I find in my way with no enemy aircraft in my area after the first mission. Frankly, my missions look nothing like Krause’s videos. Basically I have one challenging mission for 3-4 milk runs while that is realistic to me its a bit boring. Frankly, I want to feel exhilarated to be back in one piece at the end of my missions.
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You see all these issues have simple solutions:
For example, how bout an option to auto align your TGP and mavericks.
You don’t have to align them. Use simply the WPN page, without TGP and you’ll be fine most of the time without even aligning them. When I screw up my alignement, that’s how I do it and I don’t tell my mates. I just cope Shht don’t tell Redshift, that will discredit me even more
I also find having to bother with trim after dropping bombs a hassle, how bout a single trim out the aircraft button.
Drop in pairs
Same with data cartridges, there are many complicated multi-step procedures that while adding immersion can be a turn off to those who don’t want that levels of immersion that do not contribute to the main thing of putting weapons on target.
Well DTC is made to simplify things. If you feel it’s more complicated, then don’t use the shortcuts it provides (use straight freqs rather than presets for radios, use BYP mode for counter measures, …
Frankly, I just want to find targets on my scope lock them up and fire when in range, I don’t care about having to flip dozens of switches and dials or having to figure out which white box on the tgp in a town is a tank and which is a fruit stand.
I respect that, but it’s not the purpose upon which BMS was built. What you need is what we call a shoot em up
Also I find that most times I lose interest by the 3rd or 4th mission of a campaign when suddenly there are no more aircraft opposing me or SAMS left to fight you unless you fight along the tiny corridor between ai objectives, and I am basically working my way right toward Kim’s palace wiping every SAM I find in my way with no enemy aircraft in my area after the first mission.
I can understand that. It’s where the efficiency and proper planning comes into play, and the need to fly with other humans that properly support you.
Frankly, my missions look nothing like Krause’s videos.
Mine neither
Basically I have one challenging mission for 3-4 milk runs while that is realistic to me its a bit boring.
It’s a question to see where the challenge is. I enjoy as much training intercept mission done right as a combat Te where it’s 55 minutes boring and 2.5 minutes of intense stress
Frankly, I want to feel exhilarated to be back in one piece at the end of my missions.
But I always do
You see it’s nothing personnal, your comments and wishes are reflecting a lot of comments boards wide, I for one understand them and I just take them as an example - please see them as general answers.
When you get bored with solo, it’s time to get on the MP train. It opens other doors (and we need the manpower ) -
@theOden:
The interest is out there but what little extra is needed to push the decision over the last hurdle?
Totally as RD mentioned it takes just a little bit of dedication. The key is to stop thinking of it as work (even though it is) and about mastering a difficult subject, taking pride in climbing that mountain.
Is falcon MP too complicated?
Not at all. Most of it is defined contracts that everyone knows, so there is standardization in everything, from how to rejoin, to what we will do during air to air, what are our responsibilities during air to ground. They’re actually super simple when you break it down into smaller units of learning.
Do everyone think one has to be overly professional speaking Brevity and flying wingtip-to-wingtip?
(we consider extremely close formation being within 10 miles )I personally think so. There is a big difference (and potentially since you’ve never experienced it, you just don’t know what you don’t know) when everyone follows their role correctly, the missions are LESS stressful because you can count on your wingman to do his job and follow through. I find that the common way, the flights are actually more difficult because you lose mutual support which invariably results in some blue on blue (proper SA, contracts on group ownership, sharing, and tactical execution prevent this) or someone getting a heater, because those MiG-23s snuck up on the flight, where a good CHECK SIX lookout would prevent it. There’s an initial investment in time, that pays dividends for years and years thereafter. We can’t keep every pilot and some guys move on, so those that have are no doubt more deadly in their singleton flights than without ever been exposed to the training.
It must be something stopping people to take that last jump.
See RD’s post.
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I have to chorus red-shift, being new here and a few other flight communities, on the pinnacle of early retirement (maybe) and a lifetime love. The fact is, if we taught every american kid interested how to fly…well…You’ll soon see this becoming more POSSIBLE not PROBABLE as things like HMDs, flying automobiles, and the desire to do it is borne from the ability to. cars are used by almost every family, yet not every family can afford to pedigree an f1 racer. Or something less exotic but just as socially revealing, hockey- who plays hockey ? upper middle class. where do they go to school? private. Look at the cavalry legacy to the pilot. I’m from an aviation family, yet only two of us actively fly, and no one has enlisted since WWII.
The American warrior culture is a dirty word to the liberal mass, the american engineer, as much as the pilot, liberated Europe and has ensured aerial hegemony of both our technology and our country…just, don’t go flying over Moscow in a winter storm. As public opine changes, the need to keep the most advanced and strongest air force will no longer be seen as a defeat to human nature. It is my earnest hope that someday very soon, the world at large once again recognizes the self evident truth that the best and brightest not only do build advanced and exotic weaponry, but they have to, for they will soon be under attack.
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I actually think a blending of the “casual” and the “professional” is the most preferred option. I have been toying with this idea (and I am sure it has been tried and failed before but that’s the thing about programming, life, business, and coding, just because something has been tried and failed doesn’t mean that in a different time, with a few different minds, with a few tweaks, that it won’t be a raging success the next time around – compare MySpace to Facebook – compare Falcon AT to Falcon 4.0, compare Windows 7 to Windows 10, actually forget that last comparison :D).
Anyway, the concept is inter-squadron campaign matchmaking. Where @theOden is flying A-10 AI with 3 of his buds and @Redshift20 is flying F-16s with 8 of his buds. Now, wouldn’t it be peaches for Redshift to fly SEAD and TARCAP for the A10s with a divert option if nothing is going on at the AI for them to do?
Between the A10s and the F16s all you need is a modicum of brevity between them. Inside the flight it can be strict brevity or no brevity. The AI mission might fail if A10s have no SA aggravated by that flight not practicing brevity. But that just adds to the drama, it’s a good movie and Redshift’s exposure to bad brevity practices is limited and the reverse is also true. theOden’s exposure to high professional standards is also limited. They both get to fly more in MP, they both get to mostly fly to their own tastes. And, I think, it makes the whole community start coming together and as it comes together (loosely) this should increase interest.
Now, there are a couple things that have to happen. A base protocol has to be agreed setting up missions, connecting, and cooperating. This doesn’t need to be known to all, just to flight leaders. Your buds just follow along as you, the flight leader, instructs them. The protocol is either dreamed up by an entrepreneurial spirit here and invites the squadrons, or the squadrons each have a representative when working at the protocols.
I don’t think the 24/7 campaign would work very well for this, nor even a dedicated server, but there is another way to share campaigns. Most squadrons have the ability to host a session, so what you need in this cross-squadron world is someone to be a campaign moderator (at least one for each theater). Say Redshift takes on the current ITO campaign and theOden takes on the current KTO campaign. You need a slick way for squadrons and individuals to schedule time in the campaign and invite others (i.e. I could check the campaign out from 2000 zulu to 2300 zulu and host up to 8 players). You also need a slick way to share the campaign files (like checking a library book out and returning it).
So, general protocols for inter-squadron cooperation. More specific protocols set by the campaign moderator. A little more specific detail and guidance can be added by the mission leader. Then finally, you are pretty much king within your flight. (Although you may face court martial after you get back to base ). Everyone doesn’t have to know everything, just the mission leader and the flight leaders need to be on top of the protocols. Anyway, that’s the shell of the idea that I’ve been tinkering with the last couple of months.
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Interesting idea Vandal,
as long as I can have my friday-beer and laugh as I taxi off the runway back home I would fly there.
But I do think the campaign would be suitable.
Just untick “HQ” on a Viper and a Warthog squadron and “no planes available” should be of no concern.
Give flight leaders an hour maximum before take off to analyze the situation and frag a package with all needed flights and off we all go (they need to adopt to a changing world, don’t they! haha)Getting new e-pilots to start see and connect the events in the campaign along with the effects of completed missions should get them interested.
DBond taught me alot that I never seen despite flying for years.
I guess I really never understood the campaign fully but was just impressed with flying and getting all the surprises one might get slammed in the face with during mission.
Nowadays I spend time looking through the OOB and checking if any AWACS are up when I plan to fly, not before all missions but occasionally.
(but DBond is reporting campaign status with his impressive writing style often enough making it less important , even when new squadrons of F-16’s arrive)
We alter PAK’s on daily basis along with mission type sliders to twist the coming events as we think is needed. -
Yeah personally I am 100% into campaign flying. I am 100% into the story advancing even if I am not flying. But I don’t need the story to advance if no one is flying for a couple of days. So, you can handle that by saving the campaign and shutting it off until someone needs it.
You can either have a dedicated server, or share the campaign file, or both. I am thinking though, as a minimum at least 1 campaign per theater at the cross-squadron site. So, if you are moderating the current KTO campaign, you can set that up on your dedicated server and have the rules for checking it out (including being a “qualified” session leader – knowing the rules on how your server is run). Redshift, being in charge of the current ITO theater, may adopt the “library” model that I outlined and he might have no additional qualifiers before checking it out. Next ITO campaign would go to someone else to moderate and the protocols for that could change a bit. You just don’t want to break the way people connect and schedule, but you could have a variety of scenarios/playstyles all getting some attention. But yeah, you really want to standardize how sessions are organized and then it’s just a matter of brushing up on the current campaign’s house rules and off you go!
The thing is with a bunch of campaigns being ran and everyone in the community knowing they can check out the schedules and participate in these cross-squadron campaigns quickly and easily – well there’s bound to be 2 or 3 going on that is really going to catch your interest and if you are a nut like me, hell play them all and enjoy the variety!
But yeah, flight leaders need to take some time to frag missions appropriate to the number of sign ups, and I would personally partake more often in campaigns that set aside player controlled squadrons as that makes life so much easier!
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That is what Falcon Online was. You’d have guys who knew their shit front to back and guys who didn’t. It was a lot of fun as you never knew who you were going to get on the other side of the FLOT. Sometimes you’d be in a BVR match with Mower, other times it was MortilSil or PrancingKiller. That was a lot of fun.
Right now the netcode doesn’t support large matches, but eventually that will be fixed, maybe in the next 3-4 weeks, who knows except the devs, but hopefully one day we will be able to have large 24/7 matches like used to!
Most people were able to catch onto the basic brevity from having AWACS controllers and the brevity codes being freely available online, so it wasn’t brutal to follow except that people called the individual bullseye for everything, rather than binding groups as you’re supposed to which reduces radio chatter a great deal, but I could live with it. We’ll have to see going forward. Hope for the best as far as large online campaigns, ect.
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That is what Falcon Online was. You’d have guys who knew their shit front to back and guys who didn’t. It was a lot of fun as you never knew who you were going to get on the other side of the FLOT. Sometimes you’d be in a BVR match with Mower, other times it was MortilSil or PrancingKiller. That was a lot of fun.
Right now the netcode doesn’t support large matches, but eventually that will be fixed, maybe in the next 3-4 weeks, who knows except the devs, but hopefully one day we will be able to have large 24/7 matches like used to!
Most people were able to catch onto the basic brevity from having AWACS controllers and the brevity codes being freely available online, so it wasn’t brutal to follow except that people called the individual bullseye for everything, rather than binding groups as you’re supposed to which reduces radio chatter a great deal, but I could live with it. We’ll have to see going forward. Hope for the best as far as large online campaigns, ect.
That’s what I understood from my visits to FO, but it looks like to me anyway that they crashed up against having 1 server and wanting to have hordes of flyers up at one time. I am saying have at least some of the campaigns hosted by the players. Decentralize it. Make the transfer and handoff of the campaign to the next guy as slick and as automated as you can (FTP script with Filezilla comes to mind) and go off and do your mission. If you know you can only host 6 players reliably, then only advertise six slots for your mission. Maybe that was going on over there, but it didn’t seem to be the focus.
Of course, I hope that the code gets fixed for flying hordes, but that’s not a reason to not do what I am talking about, because when it does get fixed you can add the massive furball server to the services offered by the inter-squadron mix.