If You Could Build A New Computer Just for Falcon BMS Right Now…
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NO! You can REQUEST CPU speed through the BIOS. The chip will not intentionally damage itself just to appease a request from a BIOS. Period.
I guess you’ve never heard of anyone frying their chip due to a wrong BIOS setting, huh?
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Mortesil your last sentence sounds like when i was accused that i m empty of arguments and when the going gets taugh for me i twist or change subjects or avoid the subject.
Once again it doesnt have 2 do with me or u.
Ppl here read evaluate and come 2 their own conclusions.In every subject u participate u ask or demand from the one that has a different opinion from u to present a thesis that is evaluated by the grant jury, NASA, NSA, MIT and whatever. Your way sure, respected but i dont think im going to go to all that trouble, if u want take the role of the devils avocant and do your search.
Where is that hero Naldo with the great signature: “Everything on the internet is 100% true.”
I totally agree with ICE and there r zilion of examples personal and on the internet.
My experience is adequate to stand my ground and what i wrote on the subject. And guess what i aint gonna tell u.
[emoji38]sent from my mi5 using Tapatalk
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If you had a budget of around $2000 or so right now, what would you buy/build? To include the operating system/software and where you would buy the parts.
I see a lot of issues posted here, so I think a clean-slate approach might be best. I’m talking about a machine that isn’t intended to do anything other than run Falcon BMS and other similar sims.
Here’s my situation:
I have no desktop computer as of now. I simply have Falcon 4 Allied Assault, some pedals, and a Thrustmaster Cougar set with a force control mod. I’ve messed around with the software in the past with an old gaming computer I had a few years ago but that’s about it. I went to install it on my modern laptop that runs windows 10 but ran into all kinds of issues from the game to the controller software etc. I’m assuming this had a lot to do with windows 10.
I have enough time to build a computer, but I’m pretty busy now a days, and can’t afford to spend hours tweaking and fixing. I’m not going to be tweaking the software or building a cockpit or anything. I just want a good simple reliable set up that works from the beginning. Thanks in advance!
:munch:
Poor xcraftile ( the guy who started the thread) must be thinking “wtf, I better not ask which is the best GPU for BMS, I might get banned for over exciting the natives”
Sorry I was going to list both a Intel and AMD rig , but just realized how late it is. Tomorrow !
AMD was my choice this time around:
- Gigabyte AX370-Gaming K7 Supports fast ram and full of goodies.
- G.Skill 16G(2x8G)F4-3200C14D-16GFX DDR4 3200 MHZ 1.2V (The Ram must support AMD RyZen).
- AMD RyZen 5 1600 CPU, a 6 Core piece that will OC up to 4GHz. Comes with decent cooler
- OR
- AMD Ryzen 5 1600X 6-Core Socket AM4 3.6GHz CPU . No cooler included.
- With Cooler Master Hyper 212 LED Turbo CPU Cooler Red Cover (Value cooler)
If I went Intel:
- Gigabyte Z270X-Gaming 5 LGA 1151 ATX Motherboard or similar
- G.Skill 16G (2x8G)F4-3200C16D-16GTZKW PC4-25600 / DDR4 3200 Mhz
- Intel Core i5 7600K Quad Core LGA 1151 3.8 GHz Unlocked CPU Processor
- OR
- Intel Core i7 7700K Quad Core LGA 1151 4.2 GHz Unlocked CPU Processor
- And Cooler Master Hyper 212 LED Turbo CPU Cooler Red Cover (Value cooler)
GPU:
- MSI Radeon RX580 ARMOR 8G OC Graphics Card
- or MSI GeForce GTX 1070 Armor OC 8GB Video Card
Storage:
- Samsung 500GB SSD 850 EVO for OS & Apps
- Western Digital WD7500BPKX 2.5" WD BLACK,750GB,7200RPM,16MB,SATA III,5YRS for storage
PSU:
- Antec 620W High Current Gamer Modular PSU 80+Bronze, 135mm fan, High Current + or similar (Don’t wast money on any more wattage, more is not necessarily better)
Optical:
- LG H24NS SATA 24X± Super Multi DVDR Black OEM (cheap) unless you want Blu-ray
An important Case (Dust filters are a must)
- CoolerMaster CONSE400KWN2 N400 Black USB3.0 NO PSU
- or Antec Three Hundred TWO - Black Mid-Tower Gaming Case, The Essentially Cool and Quiet Case
- AND 2x CoolerMaster R4-JFDP-20PB-R1 PWM JetFlo 12CM Blue for air intake.
Monitor: 27" min. Good monitor aren’t cheap & new models are hard to get reviews on. You need to research, fast monitors aren’t always what you need. I went for a 32" 2560x1440 AOC IPS Panel, Great color and view angles but needs power to drive the higher rez.
- Samsung LS27F350FHEXXY 27inch Full HD FreeSync LED Monitor
- or AOC LED m2870VQ 28" 4ms VGA/DVI/HDMI/DisplayPort, Speakers 20m:1, 1920*1080, Black, 3yrs
Mouse:
- Logitech G403 PRODIGY Wired/Wireless Gaming Mouse. or better.
- I went for the G900.
You can price it out your self,
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BTW, I’m not really trying to be a d*ck and strictly confrontational with you,
Same here. Let us continue the discussion, and if it feels confrontational, I don’t have that intent. I do intend to challenge your IDEAS, but not to be a d*ck.
@Ice: Still not seeing the big picture when it comes to air vs liquid
Where does the air go in a forced air system? Through the CPU, into the heatsinks, dissipates into the ambient air. This raises the ambient temp of the rest of the system, a lot.A few things here:
1. Positive air pressure vs. negative air pressure inside the case
2. Even if your CPU was at 100 degrees C, it doesn’t mean the ambient air is 100 degrees C. The ambient air temp INSIDE the case will depend on how much airflow goes through the case. Less airflow = higher heat, obviously.
3. People on serious watercooling setups have radiators at the FRONT of the case with fans blowing air INTO the case. You know this, right? Not all watercooling setups are made to exhaust air out of the case.Second, where does the air come from? Most cases (As Stub pointed out earlier) are carefully designed to have a specific air flow path inside the case. Adding a huge vacuum in the middle of the case destroys that airflow. Which makes it harder for the rest of the system to efficiently cool. +/- 1 or 2 degrees on the CPU is not comparable when everything else in the system runs 10 degrees hotter. This is on top of the already hotter ambient temp of the system in point 1.
I wonder where you got this “vacuum” idea from? Also, refer to my #1 point above.
Liquid systems remove the CPU cooling almost entirely from the case designed draw through cooling, which results in more “clean” air for the other components of the system. The heat is dissipated at the exit point of the system via the fans that come with the LC system, so it never gets introduced into the ambient case air. As I said before, I look at it from the whole system concept, not just the number on the CPU sensor. It makes a difference for high end systems.
You are talking about watercooling with the fans/radiator exhausting air out of the case… so here’s a thought for you: where does the air come from? It comes from INSIDE the case which is already above room temperature because of your hot GPU… unless you are using a blower-type GPU design which is not ideal because it is loud. If you’re using any of the GPUs with custom heat dissipation designs, most of them exhaust the hot air right back into the case.
As for this “whole system” talk, please show me where other PC components start throttling performance due to ambient in-case air temps? I am sure you’re worrying about nothing here.
If you look at every high end benchmark on Tom’s they all say you need Liquid, Open Loop, to do anything other than stock freqs. Air just won’t cut it with the more powerful processors.
Link to these? Have you looked at the stuff I linked? Why would you need watercooling when the best air cooler has roughly the same performance as the best watercooler and it even outperforms most of the other watercoolers? (I’m referring to AIO… I think custom loops are moot discussion at this point as we’re working with a budget)
Third, from what I understand; CPU is not the bottleneck in BMS, and BMS DOES have multithreading built into the program-
Maybe… but that does not mean it’s multi-threading optimised. Show me where it says how much better 6 cores will run over 4 cores?
Post your build then? I found one that meets his criteria and mine, and can be used for other stuff besides gaming. A lot of other stuff.
A lot of other stuff that the OP may very well NOT care about. It’s like asking someone for a good daily-commute car and you’re recommending a Ferrari because it’s good for commuting and a lot of other stuff (ie, picking up chicks, getting speeding tickets, etc.)
PPS… If you’re running 2 titans and a 6700k OC on straight air, I promise you you aren’t getting the full CPU performance. That’s a fact, no assumptions required. Let me know what your temp monitors say when you’re under load. The Titans alone will raise the case air temp above manageable levels for strictly fans.
You’re saying 2 Titans and a 6700K OC on air is getting throttled due to temps…. but you DO realize that even if he were to upgrade to a watercooling setup, guess where that is going to get the air to push through the radiators? FROM INSIDE THE CASE!! The very same air that his aircooler was using!! The only reason some reviews mention ambient room temp or ambient in-case temp is to adjust the final results… obviously if you OC a setup with 30 degrees room temp then do it again with the exact same setup with 20 degrees room temp, the second test will give different results despite not changing hardware.
I can’t believe I’m explaining this… :drink:
And I can guarantee you would get noticeably better performance from your rig under WC.
How? How? Please explain fully… especially after I’ve linked two reviews that shows an air cooler trading blows with AIOs that cost much more… reviews that show EXACTLY how the right aircooler gives SIMILAR performance with a watercooler.
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Welp, I think I have less of an idea of what I want to build now… lol. Going back to my earlier, post, it sounds like that build I found on pcpartpicker will do just fine running windows 7. Again this is primarily a BMS rig, if I wanna mess around with XP11 or DCS I can always get some more ram and OC the CPU. Maybe upgrade to water cooled. Sounds about right?:
https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/hsgXsY/excellent-gaming-build
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Welp, I think I have less of an idea of what I want to build now… lol.
HAHA, while these guys, MortSile, Stubbies, Shadow, Ice know their stuff, sometimes it’s not a good idea to put how much you have to spend, especially when it’s a good amount like $2000 clams.
Sometimes it better to say, “Dude’s, I wanna build a rig for Falcon…I’m broke, the wife divorced me, took the house, left the dog, who by the way has heart disease, whatcha say?!?!?!”
LMAO
C9
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Well that was a wast of time, what happened to build your own.
The SSD is a POS http://www.anandtech.com/show/11085/the-adata-ultimate-su800-ssd-review-128gb-256gb-512gb/10
The 1080 is overkill.
Team vulcan 16gb ddr4 only just.
Gigabyte Z270P-D3 entry level but will do the job, but no more.You could have had a nice Rig but settling for mediocre.
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@Cloud:
Sometimes it better to say, “Dude’s, I wanna build a rig for Falcon…I’m broke, the wife divorced me, took the house, left the dog, who by the way has heart disease, whatcha say?!?!?!”
LMAO
C9
Sounds like you & me.
I got suckered in on that last post. O well back to doing Tax book-work.
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Well i dont think it was a waste of time.
Many guys learned many things and the configs u posted Shadow im sure will be used for refference from many.
Always look on the bright side of things.Tax? Aouch…
sent from my mi5 using Tapatalk
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Well that was a wast of time, what happened to build your own.
The SSD is a POS http://www.anandtech.com/show/11085/the-adata-ultimate-su800-ssd-review-128gb-256gb-512gb/10
The 1080 is overkill.
Team vulcan 16gb ddr4 only just.
Gigabyte Z270P-D3 entry level but will do the job, but no more.You could have had a nice Rig but settling for mediocre.
Oh I didn’t buy anything yet. Just used that as an example build.
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BMS only,
Best to take
i3-7350K, 4,2 GHz
Or
i5-7600K, 3,8 GHz -
Oh I didn’t buy anything yet. Just used that as an example build.
Almost impossible to build the perfect rig on the first attempt, hindsight will say much.
Like sands in the hour glass so are the rigs I held dear. ( I need to get a life)
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Post your build then?
Silverstone Raven 2b case
OCZ-ZX 1250 Watt 80+ gold power supply
Gigabyte GA-Z170-UD5 motherboard
Intel i7-6700K CPU
Noctua NH D-14 CPU cooler
G.Skill 3600 DDR4 16 gigs (8x2)
NVidia Titan X (Maxwell) x2 in SLI
Those Titans drive three 23" LG IPS 235V monitors in a NVidia Surround display
Mushkin Enhanced Chronos 480 GB SSD boot drive
SanDisk Extreme PRO 960GB SSD x2 as game drives
Western Digital Black 5 TB storage drive
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion
Liteon 12x blu-ray burner
Logitech G910 Orion Spectrum keyboard
Logitech G700s mouseI found one that meets his criteria and mine, and can be used for other stuff besides gaming.
Oh you mean the one you put together with no SSD and a power supply that was so cheap that it shouldn’t be trusted with 700 dollars worth of CPU/mobo? You had the case AND power supply listed together at 73 bucks. Meaning that power supply was no better than 20 or 30 bucks. Not something anyone should ever use on a high end rig period.
I will admit being impressed that you got close to the 2k mark but the only way you did was by excluding an SSD and including an ultra cheap keyboard/mouse combo and a PSU that isn’t trust worthy for that system.
A lot of other stuff.
He isn’t doing “a lot of other stuff” with that rig. This is what you have continually failed to take into account in trying to push for a more expensive build. That or even address the possibility of an AMD Ryzen build being better bang for the buck.
And in case you’re in the market for tea in china later… https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/desktop-5th-gen-core-family-datasheet-vol-1.html Para 5.7… Second time I’ve given you this. Unless explicitly stated, I don’t assume, I research. Try it some time.
Sigh. You can link it a thousand times but it means nothing unless you are exceeding those limits. I am NOT. Table 23 is showing TCC activation at 96 C. So unless you get up to that point it DOESN’T THROTTLE. I can thermally max my CPU and watch it sit at mid 70s and be watching CPU Z at the same time and the CPU frequency is hardly moving at all. Mainly due to slight changes in the BClk freq as it dips from 100 to like 99.6.
PS… Your BIOS CANNOT lock your processor speed. It can REQUEST a speed. Your processor will do what it is programmed to do regardless of what the BIOS asks of it. Completely transparent to you, it will adjust clock speed as required to meet it’s limitations.
OK thanks for getting to the picking nits stage. I have the BIOS dialed in and I can use any manner of utility and verify that it is dialed in at what I requested. Since I have told it through the BIOS what I want it to run at it is always running at that frequency unless affected by temperature. Which it never is.
Feel free to verify that in the above link as well.
Once again the only time your multiply linked reference is going to apply is if you get up to TCC of 96 C. Which I never do even in synthetic torture tests.
PPS… If you’re running 2 titans and a 6700k OC on straight air, I promise you you aren’t getting the full CPU performance. That’s a fact, no assumptions required. Let me know what your temp monitors say when you’re under load. The Titans alone will raise the case air temp above manageable levels for strictly fans.
I can run Prime95 in Small FTT mode to max out the CPU thermally and I hit mid 70s on nothing but air. A full 20 C below TCC. The CPU is sitting at 1.308 volts at that stage so no issues there either.
BTW, I’m not really trying to be a d*ck and strictly confrontational with you, although I kind of get that feeling from you. I’m really trying to help, because you’re wrong, on several points.
I get the distinct impression from the conversation that you are an Intel enthusiast platform fan boy. You have pushed the same rig regardless of what the OP has stated the purpose was and have steadfastly ignored any mention of AMD Ryzen. I am not questioning your wanting to help but IMO you are seeing these through fan boy glasses which colors the output.
And I can guarantee you would get noticeably better performance from your rig under WC.
No one is saying that WC can’t beat big air. It certainly can. However it adds complexity/points of failure and cost to the build. As has been pointed out even if you have a fan failure on big air you still have these enormous passive fins to get heat away from the CPU just not the fans to move air. Not so much if you get a pump fail on a WC system. Then you only have the water block. The CPU will still do it’s job to protect itself of course. Either way I am not here to rain on anyone’s WC parade. I just prefer the simplicity of big air.
And probably prevent one of the titans from melting a fan at some point in the future.
Hyperbole will get you no where. Since I have been running this same setup for several years now at what point am I supposed to be worried about them melting “at some point in the future”?
I wouldn’t be surprised to hear you say your temp sits at 70+ C idle and well over 90 under full load, which is NOT ok…
You know what they say about assuming…
Try mid 20s idling and mid 70s full CPU thermal load.
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Poor xcraftile ( the guy who started the thread) must be thinking “wtf, I better not ask which is the best GPU for BMS, I might get banned for over exciting the natives”
Well GPU isn’t one I would even argue at all as both sides of the isle can serve you just fine in that regard at roughly the same price points. I personally prefer NVidia but there is nothing wrong at all with running Radeons.
Point taken though that the OP is probably asking himself how we got here.
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Welp, I think I have less of an idea of what I want to build now… lol. Going back to my earlier, post, it sounds like that build I found on pcpartpicker will do just fine running windows 7. Again this is primarily a BMS rig, if I wanna mess around with XP11 or DCS I can always get some more ram and OC the CPU. Maybe upgrade to water cooled. Sounds about right?:
https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/hsgXsY/excellent-gaming-build
Whoah hold on. If the link to the excellent gaming build is what you have in mind then you have to take into account that MS has nixed the ability for people to patch up Windows 7 on Kaby Lake or Ryzen CPUs and that build is based on a Kaby Lake. Just hafta keep that in mind. If you are going with either of the newest CPUs it is probably best to run Windows 10. If you really want Windows 7 you need to get a Sky Lake CPU. The Sky Lake equivalent to that build’s CPU is a i5-6600K.
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@Cloud:
HAHA, while these guys, MortSile, Stubbies, Shadow, Ice know their stuff, sometimes it’s not a good idea to put how much you have to spend, especially when it’s a good amount like $2000 clams.
Sometimes it better to say, “Dude’s, I wanna build a rig for Falcon…I’m broke, the wife divorced me, took the house, left the dog, who by the way has heart disease, whatcha say?!?!?!”
LMAO
C9
Don’t forget the car broke down so he has to walk to and home from work. Up hill. Both ways.
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Whoah hold on. If the link to the excellent gaming build is what you have in mind then you have to take into account that MS has nixed the ability for people to patch up Windows 7 on Kaby Lake or Ryzen CPUs and that build is based on a Kaby Lake. Just hafta keep that in mind. If you are going with either of the newest CPUs it is probably best to run Windows 10. If you really want Windows 7 you need to get a Sky Lake CPU. The Sky Lake equivalent to that build’s CPU is a i5-6600K.
Cool, let me know if this link works, this is the modified build of the original one I posted in light of the new advice. Also includes everything else I’ll need to get it all up and running (meets my price point):
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/q4jThq