Backup Tacan
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All clear, thank you. Very complicated to find my way back without HSD and without TACAN
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dead reckoning and pilotage remain valid VFR navigation methods… In the weather, it starts getting a bit more interesting.
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All clear, thank you. Very complicated to find my way back without HSD and without TACAN
Chart, Compass, Watch, … Radar may help if working.
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Well visibility was close to zero, so a chart is not super useful in that case
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5km visibility is enough (and 5km is not much). I guess if you have no tacan, and no INS, you dont have much options other than ejection - or some dead reckoning.
Fly towards home plate with the compass, at a known airspeed. Check the watch at intervals to establish rough position. Look for positive fixes from whatever ground objects you can establish. If you know where you are, work from the clock to the map, and the map to the ground. If you are totally lost, work from the ground to the map to fix your position, then work from the clock to the map, and the map to the ground.
If you get to the area where home plate or a divert field is, and you cant find it due weather, your options are holding in the hopes the weather will improve, or diverting elsewhere in the hopes they have better weather. When you get fuel critical, ditch into the sea and eject beforehand. Over land if possible.
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Well visibility was close to zero, so a chart is not super useful in that case
So got to catch one of you win on radar, go in close form on him, send him the RTB order and do your best to stay in close.
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So got to catch one of you win on radar, go in close form on him, send him the RTB order and do your best to stay in close.
I wish I wish, but as I said in the first post, flight of two in a TE, I was the wingman and the lead got shot down.
Anyways, I have my answer Thank you all !
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How about calling AWACs asking for home plate or divert field ?, then if you dont have HUD course information use the magnetic compass
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Yeah it was kinda odd to move backup tacan to mfd page , since, let’s face it, it’s not even close to reality., no backup instrument is on something digital multi-functional., it should rely on its own hw circuitry.
But, doh, I understand , there was nowhere to implement it in bms without messing too much. So bear with this.There is a switch in sim/acdata for backup tacan on mfd or old <4.33 behavior., but it will mess with server MP in that theater, if for SP then you can revert that setting to 0 , then you’ll be able to use backup tacan without mfd, provided that airplane in question has backup tacan controls switches.
Cheers
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Yeah it was kinda odd to move backup tacan to mfd page , since, let’s face it, it’s not even close to reality., no backup instrument is on something digital multi-functional., it should rely on its own hw circuitry.
But, doh, I understand , there was nowhere to implement it in bms without messing too much. So bear with this.Cheers
Do I understand you correctly ? Your saying that the MFD TACAN is something BMS cooked up ?
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Partially, YES, … can’t say 100% , never been in contact with real F16 / F18 MFD , … but it seems like that. It is a hack.
eg, primary tacan is on UFC / DED . BUT! , BACKUP instrument is NEVER on any kind of MFD , which can die in more ways, makes sense ?
So BACKUP controls are always on separate circuitry , and their own minimal hardware …, there’s no sense if they work on primary circuit so if it dies , secondary backup control dies too…
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Partially, YES, … can’t say 100% , never been in contact with real F16 / F18 MFD , … but it seems like that. It is a hack.
eg, primary tacan is on UFC / DED . BUT! , BACKUP instrument is NEVER on any kind of MFD , which can die in more ways, makes sense ?
So BACKUP controls are always on separate circuitry , and their own minimal hardware …, there’s no sense if they work on primary circuit so if it dies , secondary backup control dies too…
So you are guessing.
I on the other hand am 100% sure Backup TACAN control through the MFD is a real thing. -
Well , its your call, I don’t buy it.
You have every right to believe what’s good for you. I, otoh, will patiently wait for confirmation anyway, you know, the proof.
BACKUP Tacan controls on MFD is certainly critical error in systems design , well it is an electrical jet anyway, but with ‘electricity’ gone … there goes your backup too.
So, that certainly sounds as NO backup to me… …or I live in the stone age and the Tacan is a relic that doesn’t deserve respect as before
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Well , its your call, I don’t buy it.
You have every right to believe what’s good for you. I, otoh, will patiently wait for confirmation anyway, you know, the proof.
BACKUP Tacan controls on MFD is certainly critical error in systems design , well it is an electrical jet anyway, but with ‘electricity’ gone … there goes your backup too.
So, that certainly sounds as NO backup to me… …or I live in the stone age and the Tacan is a relic that doesn’t deserve respect as before
Sure…
I just hope you don’t also question that upcoming second confirmation. -
There are no stupid questions , just stupid answers.
Look , F16 in 80’s tacan was … you know where it was… in today’s block’s , there is a possibility that it was moved to where is referred to, but that only means they are 99% sure that it wont fail, or they don’t give a *** if it fails…
Only that I can say with 100% … is that IT WILL FAIL in one way or the another.
BACKUP instruments shouldn’t fail as a result of a secondary, collateral (damage?) process… So if you break your mfd with a fist , or you’ve lost lcd/touch controller(s) with no redundancy , that means that you’ve lost a BACKUP instrument too ?? … Thin ICE.
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There are no stupid questions , just stupid answers.
Look , F16 in 80’s tacan was … you know where it was… in today’s block’s , there is a possibility that it was moved to where is referred to, but that only means they are 99% sure that it wont fail, or they don’t give a *** if it fails…
Only that I can say with 100% … is that IT WILL FAIL in one way or the another.
BACKUP instruments shouldn’t fail as a result of a secondary, collateral (damage?)… So if you break your mfd with a fist , or you’ve lost lcd/touch controller(s) with no redundancy , that means that you’ve lost a BACKUP instrument too ?? … Thin ICE.
Ermmm. What if you break the UFC first ?
I’m flat out telling you that it exists. Take it or leave it. There is no need for insults. Just pm me a sorry message when you get that second confirmation. -
Whitefang, throwing it out there - total electrical failure is a pretty remote possibility in the real jet. Lots of redundancy to make sure systems work.
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There are no stupid questions , just stupid answers.
Look , F16 in 80’s tacan was … you know where it was… in today’s block’s , there is a possibility that it was moved to where is referred to, but that only means they are 99% sure that it wont fail, or they don’t give a *** if it fails…
Only that I can say with 100% … is that IT WILL FAIL in one way or the another.
BACKUP instruments shouldn’t fail as a result of a secondary, collateral (damage?) process… So if you break your mfd with a fist , or you’ve lost lcd/touch controller(s) with no redundancy , that means that you’ve lost a BACKUP instrument too ?? … Thin ICE.
Looks like you are mistaken…
Backup tacan control is on the MFD in the real aircraft too -
Partially, YES, … can’t say 100% , never been in contact with real F16 / F18 MFD , … but it seems like that. It is a hack.
eg, primary tacan is on UFC / DED . BUT! , BACKUP instrument is NEVER on any kind of MFD , which can die in more ways, makes sense ?
So BACKUP controls are always on separate circuitry , and their own minimal hardware …, there’s no sense if they work on primary circuit so if it dies , secondary backup control dies too…
Find sources before saying something like that
http://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/MLU_M3.pdf
From page 202 onward.Again, this is a consequence of MIDS introduction. AFAIK, all MIDS-LVT equipped aircrafts are similar on that regards.
Even the CNI switch was renamed because of that to C&I, the N of Navigation being removed.
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OK! Seeing believing …, I don’t believe anything on the “Internet” anymore without proof.
@Leech
I ain’t insulting , just’ve said that I won’t believe you without hard facts, sorry dude, was screwed one too many times, apologies,. and I ain’t gonna PM you with the sorry msg , I’ll do it rite 'ere, Sorry m8@….
Well *** me , from the read I can clearly note that those engineers smoked too many weed, tac. operation in mlu3, while it is fancy, but as a consequence is NOT safe , even with on the budget part replacement, like DOD.What can you say … electrical jet is just an electrical jet. … So now the primary UFC is actually backup after failed MMC and loss of the TCN Backup… HAAHaahaa?,… those guys would be shot in Soviet Russia.
Like I’ve said , don’t get me wrong, I’m not insulting, BUT , thinking like that is quite normal for a decadent engineer form atomic age in 60’s , where they would build flying atomic cars…
It is clearly an egineering step to a replacing hardware systems with software , probably budget issue, but … can anyone say that it is safe,redundant operation ?I agree , its NOT? a mission critcal instrument , other then ILS landing in low vis foul weather … that’s not critical enough., for a fighter plane… It’s primary mission is to get the job done…
That thing would NEVER pass a civilian FAA in passenger transport, for where an ILS is a mission critical instrument, RIGHT? , and all they would get is foot in their arse/
Even I’m shocked with the results, Thanks for the info/ … btw!! , I can make an educated guess that F35 is on the line too , with backup TCN page on MFD/MMC… sorry guys, I like nuts and bolts better then ‘if fail then goto fail’ :mrgreen:
Cheers