Backup Tacan
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Yeah it was kinda odd to move backup tacan to mfd page , since, let’s face it, it’s not even close to reality., no backup instrument is on something digital multi-functional., it should rely on its own hw circuitry.
But, doh, I understand , there was nowhere to implement it in bms without messing too much. So bear with this.There is a switch in sim/acdata for backup tacan on mfd or old <4.33 behavior., but it will mess with server MP in that theater, if for SP then you can revert that setting to 0 , then you’ll be able to use backup tacan without mfd, provided that airplane in question has backup tacan controls switches.
Cheers
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Yeah it was kinda odd to move backup tacan to mfd page , since, let’s face it, it’s not even close to reality., no backup instrument is on something digital multi-functional., it should rely on its own hw circuitry.
But, doh, I understand , there was nowhere to implement it in bms without messing too much. So bear with this.Cheers
Do I understand you correctly ? Your saying that the MFD TACAN is something BMS cooked up ?
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Partially, YES, … can’t say 100% , never been in contact with real F16 / F18 MFD , … but it seems like that. It is a hack.
eg, primary tacan is on UFC / DED . BUT! , BACKUP instrument is NEVER on any kind of MFD , which can die in more ways, makes sense ?
So BACKUP controls are always on separate circuitry , and their own minimal hardware …, there’s no sense if they work on primary circuit so if it dies , secondary backup control dies too…
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Partially, YES, … can’t say 100% , never been in contact with real F16 / F18 MFD , … but it seems like that. It is a hack.
eg, primary tacan is on UFC / DED . BUT! , BACKUP instrument is NEVER on any kind of MFD , which can die in more ways, makes sense ?
So BACKUP controls are always on separate circuitry , and their own minimal hardware …, there’s no sense if they work on primary circuit so if it dies , secondary backup control dies too…
So you are guessing.
I on the other hand am 100% sure Backup TACAN control through the MFD is a real thing. -
Well , its your call, I don’t buy it.
You have every right to believe what’s good for you. I, otoh, will patiently wait for confirmation anyway, you know, the proof.
BACKUP Tacan controls on MFD is certainly critical error in systems design , well it is an electrical jet anyway, but with ‘electricity’ gone … there goes your backup too.
So, that certainly sounds as NO backup to me… …or I live in the stone age and the Tacan is a relic that doesn’t deserve respect as before
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Well , its your call, I don’t buy it.
You have every right to believe what’s good for you. I, otoh, will patiently wait for confirmation anyway, you know, the proof.
BACKUP Tacan controls on MFD is certainly critical error in systems design , well it is an electrical jet anyway, but with ‘electricity’ gone … there goes your backup too.
So, that certainly sounds as NO backup to me… …or I live in the stone age and the Tacan is a relic that doesn’t deserve respect as before
Sure…
I just hope you don’t also question that upcoming second confirmation. -
There are no stupid questions , just stupid answers.
Look , F16 in 80’s tacan was … you know where it was… in today’s block’s , there is a possibility that it was moved to where is referred to, but that only means they are 99% sure that it wont fail, or they don’t give a *** if it fails…
Only that I can say with 100% … is that IT WILL FAIL in one way or the another.
BACKUP instruments shouldn’t fail as a result of a secondary, collateral (damage?) process… So if you break your mfd with a fist , or you’ve lost lcd/touch controller(s) with no redundancy , that means that you’ve lost a BACKUP instrument too ?? … Thin ICE.
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There are no stupid questions , just stupid answers.
Look , F16 in 80’s tacan was … you know where it was… in today’s block’s , there is a possibility that it was moved to where is referred to, but that only means they are 99% sure that it wont fail, or they don’t give a *** if it fails…
Only that I can say with 100% … is that IT WILL FAIL in one way or the another.
BACKUP instruments shouldn’t fail as a result of a secondary, collateral (damage?)… So if you break your mfd with a fist , or you’ve lost lcd/touch controller(s) with no redundancy , that means that you’ve lost a BACKUP instrument too ?? … Thin ICE.
Ermmm. What if you break the UFC first ?
I’m flat out telling you that it exists. Take it or leave it. There is no need for insults. Just pm me a sorry message when you get that second confirmation. -
Whitefang, throwing it out there - total electrical failure is a pretty remote possibility in the real jet. Lots of redundancy to make sure systems work.
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There are no stupid questions , just stupid answers.
Look , F16 in 80’s tacan was … you know where it was… in today’s block’s , there is a possibility that it was moved to where is referred to, but that only means they are 99% sure that it wont fail, or they don’t give a *** if it fails…
Only that I can say with 100% … is that IT WILL FAIL in one way or the another.
BACKUP instruments shouldn’t fail as a result of a secondary, collateral (damage?) process… So if you break your mfd with a fist , or you’ve lost lcd/touch controller(s) with no redundancy , that means that you’ve lost a BACKUP instrument too ?? … Thin ICE.
Looks like you are mistaken…
Backup tacan control is on the MFD in the real aircraft too -
Partially, YES, … can’t say 100% , never been in contact with real F16 / F18 MFD , … but it seems like that. It is a hack.
eg, primary tacan is on UFC / DED . BUT! , BACKUP instrument is NEVER on any kind of MFD , which can die in more ways, makes sense ?
So BACKUP controls are always on separate circuitry , and their own minimal hardware …, there’s no sense if they work on primary circuit so if it dies , secondary backup control dies too…
Find sources before saying something like that
http://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/MLU_M3.pdf
From page 202 onward.Again, this is a consequence of MIDS introduction. AFAIK, all MIDS-LVT equipped aircrafts are similar on that regards.
Even the CNI switch was renamed because of that to C&I, the N of Navigation being removed.
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OK! Seeing believing …, I don’t believe anything on the “Internet” anymore without proof.
@Leech
I ain’t insulting , just’ve said that I won’t believe you without hard facts, sorry dude, was screwed one too many times, apologies,. and I ain’t gonna PM you with the sorry msg , I’ll do it rite 'ere, Sorry m8@….
Well *** me , from the read I can clearly note that those engineers smoked too many weed, tac. operation in mlu3, while it is fancy, but as a consequence is NOT safe , even with on the budget part replacement, like DOD.What can you say … electrical jet is just an electrical jet. … So now the primary UFC is actually backup after failed MMC and loss of the TCN Backup… HAAHaahaa?,… those guys would be shot in Soviet Russia.
Like I’ve said , don’t get me wrong, I’m not insulting, BUT , thinking like that is quite normal for a decadent engineer form atomic age in 60’s , where they would build flying atomic cars…
It is clearly an egineering step to a replacing hardware systems with software , probably budget issue, but … can anyone say that it is safe,redundant operation ?I agree , its NOT? a mission critcal instrument , other then ILS landing in low vis foul weather … that’s not critical enough., for a fighter plane… It’s primary mission is to get the job done…
That thing would NEVER pass a civilian FAA in passenger transport, for where an ILS is a mission critical instrument, RIGHT? , and all they would get is foot in their arse/
Even I’m shocked with the results, Thanks for the info/ … btw!! , I can make an educated guess that F35 is on the line too , with backup TCN page on MFD/MMC… sorry guys, I like nuts and bolts better then ‘if fail then goto fail’ :mrgreen:
Cheers
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It’s a tradeoff. I suppose there could have been a dedicated panel, and interfaces in the MIDS terminal for a digital backup, they decided it’s not worth the time/effort/money. And they probably have stats on the likelyhood of losing MMC and UFC and EGI at the same time.
For the added value of L16 (which, BTW, can also provide backup navigation in some circumstances), that’s not too much to ask, I suppose
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OK! Seeing believing …, I don’t believe anything on the “Internet” anymore without proof.
@Leech
I ain’t insulting , just’ve said that I won’t believe you without hard facts, sorry dude, was screwed one too many times, apologies,. and I ain’t gonna PM you with the sorry msg , I’ll do it rite 'ere, Sorry m8Cheers
All good mate.
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In searching the forum, this thread came up, and I thought I would ask you all.
In flying a campaign, I have been backing up my TACAN via the MFD prior to taking off.
Flew a mission where I got battle damage and lost 1 MFD. Not an issue but I decided to try to use the HSI to get home. But I was probably too far away as it registered nothing after moving C&I to back up and choosing TCN on HSI. So I call for Divert Field and get a field bearing with a TACAN 20Y (and the field in 15 miles away). On my remaining MFD I plug in this TACAN, 20Y, choose T/R, and still get nothing (HSI still on TCN of course)I have read everything in manuals on this and am confused. BMS uses “X” channel for all ground TACAN, yet I get a 20Y from Sentry. Are these TACANs just wrong and to be ignored from Sentry?
In fact, had the both the MFD’s failed, I assume that simply moving the C&I to back up and choosing TCN mode is sufficient to get a TACAN bearing?Thank you for your advice.
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20Y is (was) a bogus tacan in the stations.dat file. The range is zero but Awacs doesn’t know that unfortunately. I guess he just picked up the closest airstrip for you to land on
The awacs is sending you to an airfield/airstrip that has no tacan station.You need to do the same procedure, but pich your own alternate, before flying. And preferably an airbase that has a tacan active
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Thank you for your response.