VR with BMS and vorpX….
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BTW, seeing your vid, the instruments are readable good enough with VR glasses? I mean, if you had to judge compared to a flat screen with TIR, how much would you put the reading quality of instruments and MFD symbols, images etc?
You are using HP Reverb yes? I might go and buy a set soon and I’m mostly curious about instruments readability because a couple of years back when I visit my friend home with HTC Vive in DCS, I remember cockpit stuff being almost useless…I’ll get back to you about readability…I definitely don’t think it is quite as clear as DCS World…but I am still messing around with settings. The HUD is crystal clear…but I need to examine the MFDs.
In general though…yes, the Reverb is exceptional with clarity. I’ve owned the Rift, Odyssey+, and now the Reverb and I am so happy with the Reverb. I can clearly see MFDs and panels in the DCS planes, and in X-Plane. I posted some “through the lens” photos here…of varying quality. Just hard to really get a phone lens up close to the headset lens, so they all suffer in quality:
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Thanx for tips
We had some interesting chat yesterday in FL discord channel about the different VR headsets and it sounds to me like in the sane prices category, the HP reverb is indeed the best but the Rift-S not falling much behind with a much lower price tag (I see it for 399$ at Amazon while the Reverb cost 684$, not a small diff). Also, at this point I’m not worried about quality compared to DCS, as what you are doing is through some 3rd party API which tries to create Stereo views from a single view, I don’t think that can ever be really optimal. The real test will be when BMS itself create stereo view for both eyes, I’m sure quality then will be better.
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Thanx for tips
Also, at this point I’m not worried about quality compared to DCS, as what you are doing is through some 3rd party API which tries to create Stereo views from a single view, I don’t think that can ever be really optimal. The real test will be when BMS itself create stereo view for both eyes, I’m sure quality then will be better.maybe in 3-4 weeks,
However, when the opportunity to use VR in BMS will raise, im sure everyone will grab it with both hands, even if its not the official or must “optimal” thingBeachAV8R - keep us updated, maybe the day ill buy VR headset is closer then i thought
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How did I miss that on mudspike? while we wait for the good work on native VR support this is great news! I used to think that VR was not really possible for bms with vorpx because of the hud not projecting correctly, but seeing your videos apparently the problem has disappeared. I’ll have a go tonight and see if I can get the same results.
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Tried it in Rift S - the HUD is very clear but the the pit labels and MFDs appear broken up, less of an issue when you know where everything is. Zooming in to the MFDs makes it okay but not the other pit labels.
With Track IR running and hat balanced on top - I could have full VR mode and not have to move my head much……although needs practise because I did feel a bit sick in places.
The default tower menu was out of picture in this mode and I didn’t have VAC running- Beach you will need to a find a way around that LOL.
Not always easy to keep track of the mouse pointer and for some reason had to double click the control points - but I did a ramp start - although I will probably wait for the official VR version to come out.
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The default tower menu was out of picture
You could reposition the comms menu just right or left of the Hud. I had done this previously when I didn’t have VoiceAttack profile setup. Now I just look to see if the comms menu comes up and goes away quickly when I issue a voice command
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The default tower menu was out of picture in this mode and I didn’t have VAC running- Beach you will need to a find a way around that LOL.
Yeah, you might be able to use the “edge peek” function of vorpX (hitting the center mouse button), which zooms out the view, isolates the view so that you can now turn your head and see the full “screen”. I’ll give it a whirl today. I agree that I think there is some shimmer in the cockpit that makes the MFDs not as clear as they would be in native VR.
…although I will probably wait for the official VR version to come out.
Honestly, this would probably be my recommendation too. Unless Falcon 4 is your main program you play and you really WANT to give it a whirl in VR.
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Tried it in Rift S - the HUD is very clear but the the pit labels and MFDs appear broken up, less of an issue when you know where everything is. Zooming in to the MFDs makes it okay but not the other pit labels.
So taking a closer look at this today I agree. For some reason, the MFDs have some jagginess to them that the rest of the cockpit does not. All of the labeling in the cockpit is clear and sharp, as is the HUD, but the MFDs have some sort of aliasing going on that causes them to be difficult to read at the default cockpit position.
Text box menu positions are OK for me though…sort of positioned at high center…
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So whaddya think? A lost cause to find those higher resolutions? I’ll give anything a whirl. I haven’t messed with my NVidia properties at all other than G-Sync…
BeachAV8R
One of the most significant issues with VR is latency, where monitors have time to process the frames delivered by the GFX card, a VR HMD requires minimal processing and immediate display for a good “feel” of looking around and moving.
For lowered latency, Turn OFF any V-Sync or G-Sync - and with it, turn off any Triple-Buffering - tearing really should not be an issue especially in this sim, and even so, having smooth and consistent latency and image display is far more beneficial than any image accuracy on an HMD, given the fluid nature where we’re basically always moving, we want every frame delivered as fast as possible before raising any other graphic enhancements.
Turn on Low Latency Mode, and set Virtual Pre-Rendered Frames to 1. Ensure the Shader Cache is on and the Power Management Mode is set to Prefer Maximum Performance.
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omgomgomg I just found this, read every post, cant even tell how excited I am. I wanted to buy VR later, but daamn, am I tempted now.
Regarding MFDs jaginess, they are rendered with different resolution, selectable in options. Tried changing it?
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I would only try it if you have vorpx already, as stated by the op vorpx can only be recommended if you are interested in trying it for the heck of it; results are mixed. If I understand correctly BeachAV8R is running 4.33 which seems to hook fine for more people. Migbuster got 4.34 to hook and he was kind to share his vorpx/bms/nvidia settings with me but I cannot get it to pick up on my rig and have no idea why. No guarantees!
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@AsafBoy:
maybe in 3-4 weeks,
However, when the opportunity to use VR in BMS will raise, im sure everyone will grab it with both hands, even if its not the official or must “optimal” thingBeachAV8R - keep us updated, maybe the day ill buy VR headset is closer then i thought
Going from head tracking to VR is like going from no head tracking at all to to some type of head tracking. Especially in WVR scenarios since you are actually looking where the bandit is. Makes it absolutely natural to know where you need to go.
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Can someone upload a vorpx profile for BMS 4.34, I am keen to try it.
Pretty please…
Thanks in advance
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omgomgomg I just found this, read every post, cant even tell how excited I am. I wanted to buy VR later, but daamn, am I tempted now.
Regarding MFDs jaginess, they are rendered with different resolution, selectable in options. Tried changing it?
Oh my goodness! What have we started here?! DO NOT BUY an expensive VR headset expecting BMS in VR to look good and perform well as of now…. IMHO The FOV causes notable warped image panning that detracts from immersion, and the 1:1 tracking is terrible, no matter what tracking option you choose - even with OpenTrack and it’s Oculus tracking solution for the IRLED’s on the HMD, it is a poor approximation compared to proper VR games/sims with head look control like TrackIR, etc.
VR for BMS (proper) will come someday… until then, unless you want to put on rose colored glasses and call these janky methods we try “playable”, then you should avoid investing in VR solely for BMS. I’ve tried it all, not just BMS in VR, but many non-VR games using everything from VorpX to TriDef to Virtual Desktop, and others, and was happy to see these Proof of Concept tests work…. but I have a decent rig & have been flying for ten years, and if I called this “playable” or “enjoyable” as a VR experience, I’d be lying out my ass.
Things you can expect with these DIY versions of BMS in VR:
- Greatly lowered Situational Awareness due to difficulty reading gauges, text on switches, symbols on HUD or RWR, etc. - I tried the mod, maybe it’s my Rift CV1, but it didn’t improve enough for me to call it “readable”, could be different for different people/different HMD/different rig?
- BVR (Beyond Visual Range) is a term you can now apply to Dogfights - if you think it’s hard to spot a dot on a field of blue on a PC monitor, you’ve surely not seen BMS in VR yet…
- FOV required creates serious warping of imagery and a very odd feel when panning/looking around the cockpit.
- Requires a large degree of technical compromises, including moving Radios menu or configuring and using Voice Controls (AVCS4 FTW! )
- Pain in the rear Mouse Clicking – hold your head very stiff, you’ll need it to make sure you’re mouse can reach that switch in a pinch while the FOV pans around - like TrackIR, but no “pause” where you can swap to mouse-panning for cockpit interaction.
- GUI for 2D follows face, rather than a board up front (in some VR DIY methods) - like a dog with a bag stuck over it’s head, you’ll need to compromise there, too - set 2D up before putting on HMD, hope everything remains as set up once HMD is on and you’re at the RAMP
- Say goodbye to any tools outside BMS (Kneeboard/WDP on second monitor/tablet) or get rather technical and get those in the cockpit with some modification, or other method(s).
Even if you consider all these things, and set things up in a functional manner, you’ll never get past the core issues of visibility and situational awareness, and the ability to quickly interact with several switches in the cockpit.
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Can someone upload a vorpx profile for BMS 4.34, I am keen to try it.
Pretty please…
Thanks in advance
Here’s mine.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6k36flicsnq3846/Falcon%20BMS.vpp?dl=0
I think I copied it from FlightSimX and changed the executable. That’s about it. BeachAV8R may have a better one. -
@Wheelchock. Thanks I did the same but it didn’t seem to work for me.
Looking forward to trying your profile. -
@semlerPDX.
“Oh my goodness! What have we started here?”
Well I have a VR headset and I know Falcon BMS will not be VR capable until after some Falcon weeks. Nonetheless, I want to explore my new toy and see what can be done even if it is not true VR.
Close eyes
“DCS has some fully functional VR cockpits.”
“'War Thunder has a 3D rendition” two projected screens
Vorpx adds 3D like War Thunder to Take on helicopters (which I have tested) and other games.Open eyes
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“'War Thunder has a 3D rendition” two projected screens
oh dude - War Thunder is hands down the best flight experience in VR right now (and for some years, too)!! Can read gauges and text clearly, even interact with the main GUI very well. My PvP dogfighting game has a near unfair advantage when I’m flying in VR in WT. Got the Buttkicker Gamer 2, feels like I’m there!! And Elite: Dangerous being the best Space Sim/Game so far, too… One day, BMS in VR (proper) is coming… “hold on to your butts”
And yea, my point was not to purchase VR specifically for BMS (yet), because I didn’t want anyone to feel like we’re saying our current VR DIY attempts are something they are not. I feel the DIY every time I toy with VR in non-native VR games, well a couple work perfect, but the smaller the game, the better chance at it working in DIY through VorpX or TriDef, etc etc. The good ones, we can only hope for native VR support soon.
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Greatly lowered Situational Awareness due to difficulty reading gauges, text on switches, symbols on HUD or RWR, etc. - I tried the mod, maybe it’s my Rift CV1, but it didn’t improve enough for me to call it “readable”, could be different for different people/different HMD/different rig?
BVR (Beyond Visual Range) is a term you can now apply to Dogfights - if you think it’s hard to spot a dot on a field of blue on a PC monitor, you’ve surely not seen BMS in VR yet…
I think this would be largely solved with HP reverb, no?
The screen in reverb has 4 pixels for each of Oculus CV1 (technically missing 240 vertical pixels, granted)
1080x1200 vs 2160x2160
9.81 vs 18.94 pixels per inch -
It very well might improve those types of things to a degree, I wonder if it would be able to eliminate it. I get that the quality of the lenses combined with the display are what determine clarity and the minimum size of an object at distance, but not sure if this removes the issue with far objects when they become just a few pixels in size and where that is visible clearly on a PC monitor but no so in an HMD.
I like that the HP Reverb there has a similar form to my preferred setup, so I could put over-the-ear headphones over it.Even in 2020, VR is still a new-ish thing, and with a few choices out there, I don’t think anyone could say that any one VR headset is THE headset to buy - but if I had the money these days, and was just buying VR, I’d probably toss it at that Reverb… (haven’t read many recent reviews, so that’s a poor first impression opinion).
Won’t be too many more years before wireless is the standard, when streaming video latency gets low enough to allow a powerful PC to drive a wireless HMD. As a CV1 ‘early adopter’ of VR, I’m still waiting for the true “second generation” of VR, would hope something like the Reverb fits that category, but I don’t have any money burning a hole in my wallet to try it out, so I’ll hush up about “how good” VR is these days, and relegate it to my experience in the CV1 so far. I have friends at VG with more modern HMD’s but they’ve given me similar opinions about games I also found to be janky and “not ready for VR primetime” though we’ve never gotten together to do some side-by-side testing.