Something is very wrong with flak
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Today I made a test flight to see why flak was so accurate, even at high altitude and jinking, and made a worrying discovery.
I’m flying at about 30 thousand feet near an AAA battalion. I see the first gun flash, and about one second later, flak bursts near me.
That would mean that korean AAA guns have a muzzle velocity of about 30000 feet per second, or more than 9000 meters per second.
For comparison, the average speed of high velocity SABOT tank rounds is about 1700 meters per second, and orbital velocity in low-earth-orbit is about 7800 meters per second. Who knew North Korea had already figured out railgun technology :roll:I flew the same mission again, but this time at only ten thousand feet, and the result was the same. Gun flash, flak burst about one second later.:
I take that heavy AAA is coded to simply fire, then explode about one second later, and the accuracy simply uses RNG?
This would mean flak guns are way too deadly even at the end of their reach, and jinking basically has no effect. You just pray to RNGesus that the next shot isnt the one with your number on it.:(
I wonder why AAA guns don’t use ballistics calculation like other guns. Their rate of fire isn’t very high, certainly less than the gatling cannons on the Viper, even if only one in every 10 rounds are calculated.
Read rp5
AFAIRNo need to waste CPU when you want a probabilistic result
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Well, that’s the problem right here. It’s not about whether AA shells are too fast, or whether they’re too or not deadly enough. It’s about them not actually having to fly from the gun to the target. The video clearly demonstrated the sim takes a shortcut here that is probably unnecessary.
Flak can be used to hit maneuvering targets if you have enough of it, but at high altitudes the shells take a while to get to target.
Read rp5
AFAIRNo need to waste cpu when you want a probabilistic result
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…I’m not sure I see anything particularly “wrong”. I was expecting you to be getting summarily and continuously blasted out of the sky - looks like heavy iron rain to me, but not “wrong”.
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Alright, time for some clarification.
I read in the Vault that one defence against flak was jinking. Which, yeah, in real life and in sims that implement it, works well against aimed flak. I just read the RP5 manual and indeed it says that jinking vertically is effective against flak. So I wanted to test it. Then I found that flak shells keep exploding very close to me no matter what I do.
So here’s the real question: is jinking actually taken into account by the sim’s code every time a flak shell is fired and the RNG dice is thrown? Or is the math completely probabilistic and independent of the player’s actions?
If the first is true, then jinking can be beneficial. If it is the second, then it’s simply better to not jink and save the speed to get out of the danger zone as quickly as possible.
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What I should think it would be that the gun batteries saturate a “box” in the sky to determine a given probability of hit within that box…in 3D. So, within that box in the sky your chances of a hit within that box would/should be evenly distributed throughout the box. The only way to effectively reduce the probability of hit would be to get out of the box (or maybe close to it’s edge?)…and hopefully be on your way before the units re-locate the box.
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OK
- I do confirm that the whole thing is probabilistic in term of damage
- i do confirm that the timing between canon shot and actual explosion is fixed, independant of real flight time
- i do confirm that jinking HORIZONTALLY has no effect whatsoever
- i do confirm that jinking vertically has effect on VISUAL explosions beeing lower or higher, but NO EFFECT on damage probability (i know this is stupid but hey , this is MPS / RPx code….that would not be a first ;))
mhhh OK, that seems like a new project to me remove entirely probabilistic code and code real targeting
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Thank you !
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i may probably make a combination of probabilistic AND targeting….
indeed , we want jinking beeing efficient , we want time of flight to be correct, but we also want in case of no jinking to keep the ditribution of PK that has been put in place in RP5…
because there a plenty of effects in the targeting (wind , radar prediction accuracy , ranging accuracy etc… that would be far too complex to code and to fine tune, for at the end returning back to a PK that is the one we know today and that has been researched during RP5 time
so in short, keep the good from the past, and modernize the whole thing to make it more realistic especially for jinking effect
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coding completed
thank you for the bug report
another stone in the BMS wall
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One part of me is amazed that ballistic flak is becoming a thing. Another part of me wonders how effective will point fire flak be against fast maneuverable jets.
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The magic of BMS happening again…
5PM : hey, cool new coding project, but we should integrate wind, and so on…
10:30pm : coding completeThank you for your dedication to this amazing sim !
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The magic of BMS happening again…
5PM : hey, cool new coding project, but we should integrate wind, and so on…
10:30pm : coding completeThank you for your dedication to this amazing sim !
I agree that this is just amazing. I thought mav-jp must have been joking when he said it was done. Whatever happened to 3-4 weeks?
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I agree that this is just amazing. I thought mav-jp must have been joking when he said it was done. Whatever happened to 3-4 weeks?
why joking ?
This was actually very easy to do.
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why joking ?
This was actually very easy to do.
Coding is black-magic to me. You have my admiration!
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why joking ?
This was actually very easy to do.
Maybe easy for you, JP. For me it would be like a monkey typing Shakespeare, but I digress. The point is not how easy it was for you, but the constant effort you guys put into BMS