Wingmen fuel consumption editing
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Hi there,
I noticed in one of my none F-16 aircraft with AFM dat file that my wingmen consume more fuel than I do.
Now my simple question, what dat file settings should I adjust to have wingmen use less fuel (mainly in subsonic flight) but let fuel consumption stay same for human flying the plane?
I found these fuelflow settings in .dat, but not sure if it will affect human aircraft too and which one would be best to use.Cheers Obi1
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Hi there,
I noticed in one of my none F-16 aircraft with AFM dat file that my wingmen consume more fuel than I do.
Now my simple question, what dat file settings should I adjust to have wingmen use less fuel (mainly in subsonic flight) but let fuel consumption stay same for human flying the plane?
I found these fuelflow settings in .dat, but not sure if it will affect human aircraft too and which one would be best to use.Cheers Obi1
Unless a mistake in one file (if so please provide proper indication which file is bugged) Fuel Flows are identical between AI (OFM) and Players (AFM)
The difference comes from
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wingmen consume more fuel than human due to constant adjustment of power and fuel consumption for rejoining
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wingmen are less clever than players (usually) to save fuel in manoeuvers
Even a player’s wingman will always consume more fuel than the leader
The solution is NOT to change the fuel consumption of the engine, this is to teach AI to better manager, which is an area which is constanty under improvment (remember the time when AI was flying full AB with SB out )
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Thanks Mav-jp,
Well it’s and own modded try out for a custom plane, so no worry about bugs.
I have seen this difference like you described in fuel management. But in my case its a bit extreme so I wanted to pinpoint where it comes from.
I was suspecting different values in OFM and AFM for drag for example. But also saw these fuelflow and rates settings in OFM and wondered if I could somehow finetune with these settings to get a better balance between OFM and AFM.I just hoped for a magic setting just for AI to let the fuel usage be less overall.
Cheers Obi1
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Thanks Mav-jp,
Well it’s and own modded try out for a custom plane, so no worry about bugs.
I have seen this difference like you described in fuel management. But in my case its a bit extreme so I wanted to pinpoint where it comes from.
I was suspecting different values in OFM and AFM for drag for example. But also saw these fuelflow and rates settings in OFM and wondered if I could somehow finetune with these settings to get a better balance between OFM and AFM.I just hoped for a magic setting just for AI to let the fuel usage be less overall.
Cheers Obi1
are you sure that your Lift And Drag tables are identical in both your OFM and AFM file as they should be…
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Yes i think they are but will have another closee look to be sure. but I think the multiplyer settings for these 2 could perhaps bit different.
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what dat file settings should I adjust to have wingmen use less fuel
Baaaad idea
Wingman burn more fuel (average on mission duration) which is perfectly normal and like this IRL too.
In-game, they have the same Fuel Flow than human on stabilized cruise (engine burn the same amount of fuel at the same speed/RPM). On a normal mission, if my wingman do not have to engage some defensive / offensive phases, form depart to recovery, fuel difference at landing about 1000lbs or less. (perfectly fine).
If you have much more, then you don’t do a good job as leader. Work/enhence your own rejoin procedure, climb … turns … to be more efficient and make life easier to your wingman. But do not expect AI to be smarter then human player (they do not anticipate trajectories, then do not make short cuts on expected leader position when the are far away … this is your job to help them to rejoin you). -
Hi Deejay,Yes i am used to wingmen have a bit more fuel consumption. But in this case difference at end mission is sometimes 4000 + . So i did as mav-jp pointed out and doublechecked the drag and lift differences between OFM and AFM, found that the multiplier values were different. So i will test fly same sort of mission and see if the difference has become less.I expect it because drag was higher for OFM.But i will try even more to nurse my wingmen to not having to over use burners etc.I will report back if it was indeed drag and lift values.Cheers Obi1
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Hi Deejay,Yes i am used to wingmen have a bit more fuel consumption. But in this case difference at end mission is sometimes 4000 + . So i did as mav-jp pointed out and doublechecked the drag and lift differences between OFM and AFM, found that the multiplier values were different. So i will test fly same sort of mission and see if the difference has become less.I expect it because drag was higher for OFM.But i will try even more to nurse my wingmen to not having to over use burners etc.I will report back if it was indeed drag and lift values.Cheers Obi1
Do only long distance route flying for a real comp. AI many many times over use the afterburner during any attack regardless it is AG or AA.
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Yes i am testing with long flights and tried long legs with normal speeds. Also i ask often fuel status too see where differences occur.I am now testflying with the advice from deejay to nurse ai fuel usage and also corrected the drag values. Early in mission and difference until now is 500 between us.It feels as better. Also noticed wingman uses burners and brakes to correct small catchups. That explains the difference we have until now.
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Hi Deejay,Yes i am used to wingmen have a bit more fuel consumption. But in this case difference at end mission is sometimes 4000 + . So i did as mav-jp pointed out and doublechecked the drag and lift differences between OFM and AFM, found that the multiplier values were different. So i will test fly same sort of mission and see if the difference has become less.I expect it because drag was higher for OFM.But i will try even more to nurse my wingmen to not having to over use burners etc.I will report back if it was indeed drag and lift values.Cheers Obi1
Do not hesitate to post / send ACMI so we can see interactions/trajectories.
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Yes i am hesistant because it is not stock bms but modded afm. Test so far is difference 1500. half hour + into flight. I am now thinking this difference that is still left is probably only because of short burner usages by AI wingman used for corrections.The main problem was drag difference and my flying not helping wingman to prevent burners.
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Something really cool happened during my last test that made my falcon day.I was dodging a radar guided missile and my wingman continued to go after the bogeys.After i escaped the missile and wanted to get back into the fight, my brave wingman shouted to me: 'I might need some help here! ’ It made me smile at all the brilliant liitle feats our amazing sim has.And still surprises me with new things after all this time.Cheers Obi1
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The problem (based in my BMS experience) lies on wingmen decide to engage targets usually in the second half stage of a mission when they should conserve fuel and making their way back to base.In many cases they tend to engage targets getting away from flight leader in far distances using AB like there is no tommorow (no fuel management). Other times during RtB wingmen tend to engage, while what they should do is to go and land their plane ( they don’t own that plane…the taxpayers do)!!!A similar problem is the tendency of repeatedly insisting in engaging enemy targets while they have been instructed to rejoin formation for RTB. (have to admit that the problem is less in BMS 4,34 than previous versions but still there sometimes in dense enemy a/c presence). Finally when a wingman is returning to base in a jocker/bingo fuel status he remains in low medium altitude while he should climb high above 25.000_30.000ft in order to minimise fuel consuption (while at the same time maximise remaining flight time and chances for safe recovery in case of engine flame out). Maybe a room for an improvement in AI behaviour here - when fuel drops bellow a certain safe recovery quantity - depending on the distance of the motherbase or alternative runway!
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@APOLLO:
The problem (based in my BMS experience) lies on wingmen decide to engage targets usually in the second half stage of a mission when they should conserve fuel and making their way back to base.In many cases they tend to engage targets getting away from flight leader in far distances using AB like there is no tommorow (no fuel management). Other times during RtB wingmen tend to engage, while what they should do is to go and land their plane ( they don’t own that plane…the taxpayers do)!!!A similar problem is the tendency of repeatedly insisting in engaging enemy targets while they have been instructed to rejoin formation for RTB. (have to admit that the problem is less in BMS 4,34 than previous versions but still there sometimes in dense enemy a/c presence). Finally when a wingman is returning to base in a jocker/bingo fuel status he remains in low medium altitude while he should climb high above 25.000_30.000ft in order to minimise fuel consuption (while at the same time maximise remaining flight time and chances for safe recovery in case of engine flame out). Maybe a room for an improvement in AI behaviour here - when fuel drops bellow a certain safe recovery quantity - depending on the distance of the motherbase or alternative runway!
It’s already the case since 4.33
The AI continuously monitore it’s fuel on the home base at optimum cruise altitude
When he reaches 1000lbs on the airbase it says bingo which means he asks for RTB to the leader
It is your duty as leader to give them permission to RTB. If your don’t answer their bingo call they will stay with you or in combat until running on fumes.
If you miss the call request to RTB , in case you ask fuel state and respond bingo it means you need to say them RTB unless of course you plan a refuel or alternate
In any case if you don’t manage your wingmen they will run on fume and will leave you only on fumes, they might then crash if they don’t find a runway in the vicinity
AI leaders never miss the bingo calls
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I see…that makes sense!! Better flight lead management use is the key for sure… Still I think something should be done to prevent AI to use AB bellow a certain fuel level -despite of what is happening around- just like in real life any normal pilot should do… In many BMS combat scenarios (single player) this would prevent many friendly AI losses…
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@APOLLO:
I see…that makes sense!! Better flight lead management use is the key for sure… Still I think something should be done to prevent AI to use AB bellow a certain fuel level -despite of what is happening around- just like in real life any normal pilot should do… In many BMS combat scenarios (single player) this would prevent many friendly AI losses…
https://assets.rbl.ms/17213785/origin.jpgwe could consider that option indeed
the problem with AI brain, is that this is not really a brain, you need to reach them everyting
Liek maybe it’s better to put AB even low on fuel inc ase you will crash in the maountain nearby LOL
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This issue with AI bad habits seems to happen everywhere…