BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal
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Here’s a couple of Case 1 landing diagrams. One thing I like about “Case 1” vs. “NATOPS …” is the reminder of what a friend once told me- Turn to the 90 as soon as you see the back of the Boat.
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hi drtbkj, congratulations on your first release of the guide, well done! I have some experience with landing the F-18 on the carrier that I found hard to find in any of the manuals, so perhaps useful to your collection. Also, let me know if I am doing stuff wrong, this is just what has worked for me:
When in the downwind:
- Drop gear at below 250 knots, the F-18 will then trim itself to your AoA at that point. So I usually fly an alpha of 8.0 and then drop gear. The 8.0 is the middle of the Hornet bracket.
- With a dirty jet (gear+hook) and not too much speed in the downwind, 200-230, apply full flaps. Keep rpm at around 80-82. Note that the flaps will send you upwards, fight that with the stick
- Now start the turn onto final. One thing I have had issues with is how easy it stalls at that configuration. It is very hard to bank anymore than 30 degrees dirty like that, it drops like a rock in my experience. I found it strange that it would stall that easily making the final turn complicated.
- Also I come onto final a bit higher and a bit further back, around 1-2nm/1000ft from the carrier. So I start my turn past the abeam position. I can not see the deck properly at the landing AoA if I am only at 600 ft
- My glide slope is also more 4 degrees than 2.5, that does not seem to be an issue with navy gear
- Maybe obvious, but aim the fpm at the end of the flight deck while approaching, then let it float to a middle deck position, in front of all 4 wires
I would certainly not mind being corrected in some of this, I may have grown into some bad habits that may work for me but may also be a lot harder than it has to.
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hi drtbkj, congratulations on your first release of the guide, well done! I have some experience with landing the F-18 on the carrier that I found hard to find in any of the manuals, so perhaps useful to your collection. Also, let me know if I am doing stuff wrong, this is just what has worked for me:
When in the downwind:
- Drop gear at below 250 knots, the F-18 will then trim itself to your AoA at that point. So I usually fly an alpha of 8.0 and then drop gear. The 8.0 is the middle of the Hornet bracket.
- With a dirty jet (gear+hook) and not too much speed in the downwind, 200-230, apply full flaps. Keep rpm at around 80-82. Note that the flaps will send you upwards, fight that with the stick
- Now start the turn onto final. One thing I have had issues with is how easy it stalls at that configuration. It is very hard to bank anymore than 30 degrees dirty like that, it drops like a rock in my experience. I found it strange that it would stall that easily making the final turn complicated.
- Also I come onto final a bit higher and a bit further back, around 1-2nm/1000ft from the carrier. So I start my turn past the abeam position. I can not see the deck properly at the landing AoA if I am only at 600 ft
- My glide slope is also more 4 degrees than 2.5, that does not seem to be an issue with navy gear
- Maybe obvious, but aim the fpm at the end of the flight deck while approaching, then let it float to a middle deck position, in front of all 4 wires
I would certainly not mind being corrected in some of this, I may have grown into some bad habits that may work for me but may also be a lot harder than it has to.
Hi, Jayb. I concur with pretty much all of this. I’m not sure how good my habits are, but I’ve found…
2) If you apply full flaps as you’re turning into the downwind, the upward surge actually helps
3) True. Something I’m practicing is using the speedbrake and carrying more rpm. I’ve always noted that the Navy describes power settings and AOA and not air speed. I believe the RL SOP is to land with speed brake in on Final (I’d have to double check that). But, there’s time to retract it once settled on Final
4) Me, too. Sometimes I’ll line up the trailing edge of the wing with the Carrier’s stern, and then turn into the 90. It’s been tough from me to go from the Downwind and on to Final and be lined up right when I start in close. And, if you get sucked in tight, or more usually in my case, overshoot, the whole pass is botched.
6) Even the Navy describes it as aiming for the crotch. -
Good Day, All. While celebrating the inbound 4.35, I thought I’d finish up the checklist . Hopefully, .35 won’t make it obsolete
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Good Day, All. I’ve been posting a few 4.35 issues elsewhere, and it seemed logical to put them here, too.
- There are now a few missing hotspots in cockpit
They are-JFS
-Parking Brake
Landing Lights
take off trim
Antiskid
However, not to worry. I was going nuts trying to get the UI to cooperate, but thanks to the 4.35 Alternate Launcher,( now available) you can assign them to either keyboard or HOTAS.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?31774-Falcon-BMS-Alternative-Launcher-(Easy-Setup-Keep-Joystick-Assignments)/page64&highlight=alternate+launcher
will get you there, and many thanks, Chihiro!
BTW,Chihiro mentions copying all the files in Config. ending in Setup. It did work in carrying over 4.34 AL assignments, but you should do a quick once over over your HOTAS. AL didn’t pick up a few things like the parking brake, etc. It almost seemed like AL wanted to give a new DX assignment to them.
- There are now a few missing hotspots in cockpit
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Good Day, All. I got as far as taking off in the Hornet last night, and the only issue was JFS. I had mapped Start 1 at first, but I had 2 failed start attempts in a row. I ending up going with a taxiway launch.Upon RTFM’ing, I read that JFS 2 gives a better chance to start. I’ve remapped my HOTAS to JFS 2 and will test later.
BTW, there is one more potential addition to the bug report. I’ve mapped parking brake on and off to my HOTAS as a workaround to the lack of hotspot. It works , but the antiskid switch activates at the same time, even if I don’t want it to. -
Good Day, All. I got as far as taking off in the Hornet last night, and the only issue was JFS. I had mapped Start 1 at first, but I had 2 failed start attempts in a row. I ending up going with a taxiway launch.Upon RTFM’ing, I read that JFS 2 gives a better chance to start. I’ve remapped my HOTAS to JFS 2 and will test later.
BTW, there is one more potential addition to the bug report. I’ve mapped parking brake on and off to my HOTAS as a workaround to the lack of hotspot. It works , but the antiskid switch activates at the same time, even if I don’t want it to.As we do our “Hotspot Workaround” (see Bug Report:Missing Hotspots…) with HOTAS or keyboard mapping, I remapped to use Eng:JFS Switch-Start 2, instead of one. I just tested and did 2 successful starts.
So, we can get back in the air. I know I’m sounding like a Alt. Launcher “Groupie” but it really has helped. Without key hotspots, we need to squeeze controls to the HOTAS or keyboard that we can usually do in pit. -
Although our previously discussed hotspot workarounds have hopefully gotten you back in the air, I’ve been working on restoring the Hornet’s JFS,landing lights, and parking brake hotspots. I’ve been told the key to this is the data>art>CkptArt>specific aircraft folder> 3dbuttons.dat
I was hoping to compare the Viper’s entry ( I used the F-16CM-50 folder) with the Hornet’s. The problem is there is no f-18c folder. There are 2 EA-18G’s, a “EF-18M”, and a bunch of numbered folders, in addition to the Viper and other jets… As a test, I copied the -50’s kneeboard listings to EF-18M, but the hotspots did not show up.
Then I had the idea to copy 4.34’s EF-18M ckptArt to 4.35, after carefully saving it to desktop. No hotspots.Then I copied the entire 4.34 ckptArt to 4.35(after carefully saving 4.35’s) I realized that would effect the Viper, as well, but I just wanted to see if I was on the right track. That didn’t work either, the hotspots are still not there…
Any ideas or tips will be most appreciated.
Merry Christmas to All,
Joe -
F-18C folder inside CkptArt is the 1799.
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F-18C folder inside CkptArt is the 1799.
M, that was a great Christmas present .
So, when I look in a Viper folder (f-16cm-50 is what I’m using) I see for jfs
SimJfsStartInc -0.800643 1.398373 -2.233014 30 320 1
SimJfsStartDec -0.800643 1.398373 -2.233014 30 319 2
And, in the Hornet 1799 I see
SimJfsStart -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 20 115 1
So, after saving the clean 1799, I replaced 1799’s JFS entry with the Viper’s. Unfortunately, the hotspot didn’t come back in’pit.
I’m about to do XMAS stuff, but later I’m going to see if I missed other entries. I would think there’s a jfs start 2, for example
The experiment continues…
Update: I thought I’d try something else, so I copied the CM-50’s kneeboard entries to 1799, not hotspots. But that may not be a good test, as I have not gotten the kneeboards to cycle with key commands, either. -
Good Day, All, and I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.
The news of the day refers to the hotspot issue. In another thread White Fang wrote…
Without Lodeditor and unpacking database - NO WAY… right? correct me if I’m wrong. (similar problems with AV-8B+ pit, also pit dials lightning) , … 4.35 has changes to all those functions , so unfortunately those changes negatively impacted other pits then F-16’s …-OH! YOU can edit hotspots coords in 3dpit.dat , but that is wiiiiiild guess for coords system … even more complicated then to do it from Lodedit , and still, you can’t assign proper switches state textures … like a pro
They can be fixed … but as I’ve said above. PITA. : unpack database , find pit to fix , “CONFIGURE” and fire up Lodeditor, load pit model , assign buttons/ switches textures for all cases - day/night dial lightning , save model , repack into database … Kinda a week day job … I have no time for that - also would need help from experienced Lodeditor “guru” , as my knowledge is very limited.
I’ve did some things before like pilot legs for F-18 with kneeboards , but that was before db was changed to >2GB format , … it was easier back then , believe me. like, piece of cake.
Assigning textures is probably the worst job as every theater has it’s own textures set , so fixing pit in one theater means probably not working in other theater - but is probably easier to fix that , just need to rename assigned .dds correctly … it would work … EVERY START IS HARD - once you get going … ah what to hell - go to finish
There are programmers expressing interest in the Hornet Mafia, and I told them I’d share it here. -
thanks for the updates, our beautiful hornet has much potential
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thanks for the updates, our beautiful hornet has much potential
I agree , Seb.
My Friend’s, please allow me to get on my Soap Box for a moment…
I’m just “Lt.Nobody” ( to quote FOTIntruder) but a couple of people in the “inner circle” have reached out to me. What I’m getting is that those of us that want to Hornet and other non-Viper jets to be what they can be in BMS need to take a “God helps those who help themselves” attitude. I’m told it’s not that the Dev’s don’t care, it’s that they’re extended in other directions. So, if we want the hotspots back or whatever, we need to step up to the plate. And, keep in mind that this is NOT just about the Hornet. Anyone that enjoys the Harrier ,Mudhen, whatever, needs to join the Mafia. In fact, from now on for me it’s not the Hornet Mafia, it’s Other Fighters Mafia.
I’ve asked this thread be made a stickee, and I will continue to report.
So, how about it? -
I agree , Seb.
My Friend’s, please allow me to get on my Soap Box for a moment…
I’m just “Lt.Nobody” ( to quote FOTIntruder) but a couple of people in the “inner circle” have reached out to me. What I’m getting is that those of us that want to Hornet and other non-Viper jets to be what they can be in BMS need to take a “God helps those who help themselves” attitude. I’m told it’s not that the Dev’s don’t care, it’s that they’re extended in other directions. So, if we want the hotspots back or whatever, we need to step up to the plate. And, keep in mind that this is NOT just about the Hornet. Anyone that enjoys the Harrier ,Mudhen, whatever, needs to join the Mafia. In fact, from now on for me it’s not the Hornet Mafia, it’s Other Fighters Mafia.
I’ve asked this thread be made a stickee, and I will continue to report.
So, how about it?+1
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…So, after saving the clean 1799, I replaced 1799’s JFS entry with the Viper’s. Unfortunately, the hotspot didn’t come back in’pit.
It is normal because now the JFS position is no more corresponding to the F-18 cockpit where the JFS button is located because you are using the values for the F-16 (speaking about pure XYZ coordinates in the screen).
You need to edit the default F-18 line :
SimJfsStart -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 20 115 1like this :
SimJfsStartInc -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 20 115 1 (where -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 are the XYZ values)
SimJfsStartDec -0.37xxxx 1.48xxxx -2.28xxxx 20 115 1 (here you need to slightly adjust the XYZ values to correspond to the exact location where the jfsStartDec hotspot should be)So the first 3 values are the XYZ hotspot coordinates and the last 3 values are : the size of the spot area, the sound applied (when you click on the button) and …… i don’t remember for the third one (anyway should not be in the right order here so i need Dee-Jay to recall me)
BB
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Good Day, All, and I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.
The news of the day refers to the hotspot issue. In another thread White Fang wrote…
Without Lodeditor and unpacking database - NO WAY… right? correct me if I’m wrong. (similar problems with AV-8B+ pit, also pit dials lightning) , … 4.35 has changes to all those functions , so unfortunately those changes negatively impacted other pits then F-16’s …-OH! YOU can edit hotspots coords in 3dpit.dat , but that is wiiiiiild guess for coords system … even more complicated then to do it from Lodedit , and still, you can’t assign proper switches state textures … like a pro
They can be fixed … but as I’ve said above. PITA. : unpack database , find pit to fix , “CONFIGURE” and fire up Lodeditor, load pit model , assign buttons/ switches textures for all cases - day/night dial lightning , save model , repack into database … Kinda a week day job … I have no time for that - also would need help from experienced Lodeditor “guru” , as my knowledge is very limited.
I’ve did some things before like pilot legs for F-18 with kneeboards , but that was before db was changed to >2GB format , … it was easier back then , believe me. like, piece of cake.
Assigning textures is probably the worst job as every theater has it’s own textures set , so fixing pit in one theater means probably not working in other theater - but is probably easier to fix that , just need to rename assigned .dds correctly … it would work … EVERY START IS HARD - once you get going … ah what to hell - go to finish
There are programmers expressing interest in the Hornet Mafia, and I told them I’d share it here.Add these two lines in your config file :
set g_bActivateDebugStuff 1
set g_b3DClickableCockpitDebug 1Launch the game, go in 3D and now you can see all the hotspots in the cockpit (XYZ values are on the top of the screen). You are now able to find the good XYZ values for a new hotspot.
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@Bad:
It is normal because now the JFS position is no more corresponding to the F-18 cockpit where the JFS button is located (speaking about pure XYZ coordinates in the screen).
You need to edit the default F-18 line :
SimJfsStart -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 20 115 1like this :
SimJfsStartInc -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 20 115 1 (where -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 are the XYZ values)
SimJfsStartDec -0.37xxxx 1.48xxxx -2.28xxxx 20 115 1 (here you need to slightly adjust the XYZ values to corespond to the exact location where the jfsStartDec spot is)BB
Hi, BB, and thx. So, the editing the numbers in 1799’s 3dbutton is easy enough, it’s the estimating that sounds tough… Am I correct in assuming that the “slightly adjust xyz” is where LOdeditor comes in(post 56)? OR, if I were to go back to 4.34’s 3dbutton, would that give me switch position?
If so, 4.34>>1799>ckptArt’s JFS value is…SimJfsStart -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 20 115 1 , which as you notice is the jfs start increase you posted.
Now what?
Or, what do you think of this…4.35’s>ckptArt.f-16cm50 has this for JFS start…
SimJfsStart_Start2 -0.800643 1.398373 -2.233014 30 319 2
I’m just trying to start the jet, so what about I paste the following to 1799
SimJfsStart_Start2 -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 20 115 1
which is 4.35’s spot description “sliced” the Hornet switch position. Would that work?
Update: SUCCESS!!
What I added to my 4.35>Data>Art>ckptart>1799> 3dbutton is
SimJfsStartInc -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 20 115 1
SimJfsStartDec -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 20 115 1
SimJfsStart_Off -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 20 115 1
SimJfsStart_Start2 -0.37953 1.481295 -2.286586 20 115 1
And the hotspot is back, the switch moved to the right , and the jet started. I’m ASSUMING that the location data ( the numbers) for the Hornet on your is install is the same as mine, but I would check. I got the numbers off the 4.34>>>1799. As it’s 1 am for me, and my brain is fried I’ll work on the parking brake, etc., tomorrow. It seems that the basic concept is to take the description part of the entry (ex:SimJfsStartInc ) and "splice " the Horent location values to it.Meanwhile, on to another trick…If you guys get FLCS faults and ISA All Fail on the FLCS page, the FLCS Bit will fail. I had that happen tonight. But the solution is simple. The BMS Faults Checklist shows the solution as “press FCLS reset button”. The problem is, the BMS Bug doesn’t have one. The FCS reset button modeled does something else. But, he key command for “FLCS switch -Hold” is control-alt-F5 on my 4.35 BMS-Full keyfile. I remapped mine to where it is now a single key press, but that’s just personal preference. Press that and you’re good to go.
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It’s now 1:30am, but what the heck, I was on a roll.
To fix the Landing lights, go to the 4.35>>>1799 and change your landing lights entries to…
SimLandingLightInc -1.7583 1.283902 -2.110375 20 129 1
SimLandingLightDec -1.7583 1.283902 -2.110375 20 129 2
And the parking brake…
SimParkingBrakeInc -1.8109 1.092538 -2.219647 20 120 1
SimParkingBrakeDec -1.8109 1.092538 -2.219647 20 129 2
All you had to do in these cases were to change the commands from on and off to Inc and Dec.
Also note the last digit ( the 1 and 2). That determines which direction the switch moves in pit. 1 is for up/on and 2 is for off/down
BTW:If someone with Lodeditor or whatever can get me the Hornet’s kneeboard location data, I’ll get to work on them, too -
When done just send me the final 3dbuttons.dat file and I’ll include the change for the next bms release
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@Bad:
When done just send me the final 3dbuttons.dat file and I’ll include the change for the next bms release
Ok, BB, will do. I’m just waiting to see if someone can give me the Bug’s kneeboard location data.