F16 Brakes at 4 35
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Hello!
Just to share opinons…
Don’t you think that F16 brakes are now very underpowered?
If I maintain the nose up for aerodynamic braking at high speeds, when the nose is lowered there is still too much energy and the brakes are not enough. On the other hand, if I lower the nose too soon, the brakes have to do a lot of work at full pressure to have the aircraft stopped at the end.
Our formation landings have became very difficult at the roll out energy management. I am testing the possibility of braking while the nose is still up, but it is hard without a pedal device to regulate the pressure.
Looking forward to hearing your opinion on this.
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I am testing the possibility of braking while the nose is still up, but it is hard without a pedal device to regulate the pressure.
Looking forward to hearing your opinion on this.If you brake with the nose up I believe it will come down quite rapidly…
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I agree with the brakes being very weak now, my “k” key won’t come up again I’m afraid
There’s probably something I’m doing wrong with the new brake system changes in 4.35, but I have no idea what that could be.
Cheers, Uwe
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Question:
In your car: is the brake distance longer or shorter with your ABS active?
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I have noticed the same thing. In 4.34, there was usually plenty of runway and you could get away with some lazy AoA’s. Now I have to work to ensure landing as slow as possible while maintaining AoA and as close to the threshold as possible. I have gotten into the habit of extending airbrakes as soon as I touch the ground, this also helps. Without a good AoA, the aerobraking does not give full effect either.
For last resort landings the hook is our new friend, I suppose.
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AFAIK, no changes except the ants-skid and runway wet conditions.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?40875-Anti-skid-is-working&highlight=skid
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I have noticed the same thing. In 4.34, there was usually plenty of runway and you could get away with some lazy AoA’s. Now I have to work to ensure landing as slow as possible while maintaining AoA and as close to the threshold as possible. I have gotten into the habit of extending airbrakes as soon as I touch the ground, this also helps. Without a good AoA, the aerobraking does not give full effect either.
For last resort landings the hook is our new friend, I suppose.
I think you are wrong … to me nothing has changed. And I didn’t noticed anything different.
But you can easily do some comparison by doing the same test in the same conditions on 4.34 and 4.35. -
disagree Dj,
braking is longer than 4.34. It is quite noticeable and I did notice it as well. But I put that on normal behavior for Anti skid
Anti Skid does prevent wheel blocking but on dry condition makes braking distance a bit longer just like ABS on a car (at least that is my understanding) -
It might also be the case that some callbacks have changed so you’re not braking when you think you are
All the best,
uwe
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I don’t mind the new changes, since it requires me to land more properly. Dee-Jay, you have probably always landed like a pro:-)
But for ABS (ie. anti-skid), would ABS not ensure the shortest braking distance possible, regardless of wet/dry condition. If wheels block, you slide longer ? I think that is the selling point for cars, at least
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But for ABS (ie. anti-skid), would ABS not ensure the shortest braking distance possible, regardless of wet/dry condition. If wheels block, you slide longer ? I think that is the selling point for cars, at least
Absolutely, the only time ABS should react is when wheel rotation stops (tire is locked up).
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Is there a maximum landing weight for the F-16? Are you landing at too heavy a weight? When you release the parking brake for takeoff, i.e., not just holding pressure then releasing the brake pedals, are you going to the OFF position, instead of the anti-skid position? If so then anti-skid won’t be available at landing. Dee-Jay would prob agree that’s it’s not modeled, but if you don’t have a/skid on for landing and you apply steady braking pressure, the brakes will heat up to the point where their stopping power is significantly reduced, due to that heat build up. Has the idle power setting been changed in this revision? That would affect stopping distance too. Is that a setting on your throttle where you’ve made idle power at too high a value.
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I have noticed the same thing. In 4.34, there was usually plenty of runway and you could get away with some lazy AoA’s. Now I have to work to ensure landing as slow as possible while maintaining AoA and as close to the threshold as possible. I have gotten into the habit of extending airbrakes as soon as I touch the ground, this also helps. Without a good AoA, the aerobraking does not give full effect either.
For last resort landings the hook is our new friend, I suppose.
Rather than landing as slow as possible, land on AoA. Touch down at 13 degrees AoA with the speedbrakes open to 43 degrees. After touchdown, hold 13 degrees pitch attitude until ~120 knots. Fly the nose to the runway, blend in braking, increasing to hard braking with the nose on the runway. As the nose touches down and you begin hard braking, override the speedbrakes, to the 60 degree open position (fully open). Apply full aft stick simultaneously for maximum aerobraking effect.
If you are having trouble controlling runway length while using that technique, what gross weight can you land at and just barely stop in time?
@Red:
Anti Skid does prevent wheel blocking but on dry condition makes braking distance a bit longer just like ABS on a car (at least that is my understanding)
ABS should not affect braking distance except in cases where the wheels would lock up, in which case ABS drastically decreases braking distance.
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I don’t mind the new changes, since it requires me to land more properly. Dee-Jay, you have probably always landed like a pro:-)
But for ABS (ie. anti-skid), would ABS not ensure the shortest braking distance possible, regardless of wet/dry condition. If wheels block, you slide longer ? I think that is the selling point for cars, at least
Also in aircrafts…btw. If I understood you correctly , you are right. Antiskid braking distances should be shorter than non-antiskid distances. That’s why it was invented.
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Thanks Blu3Wolf.
So… just try to use all the resources available, even speedbrakes at 60º.
anyway, my appreciation is that the aircraft brake capabilities have decreased in excess for dry runways
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Braking distance is noticeable compared to 4.34. But like in cars the ABS goal is there for that you can CONTROL the car (steering) or plane. If you lock a wheel you lost the control of the plane or car and you slide without control. But in some conditions where the ABS is very intrusive or the track conditions are bad is probably that the braking distance will be increased at the cost of maintaining control of the vehicle.
Regards
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Braking distance is noticeable compared to 4.34. But like in cars the ABS goal is there for that you can CONTROL the car (steering) or plane. If you lock a wheel you lost the control of the plane or car and you slide without control. But in some conditions where the ABS is very intrusive or the track conditions are bad is probably that the braking distance will be increased at the cost of maintaining control of the vehicle.
Regards
Please show me a video of a test where ABS caused an increase in max effort braking distance… if you lock a wheel you don’t just lose control, you lose braking effort also. Have a look at the mu of a tire in good contact with the road versus the same tire skidding.
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@Red:
disagree Dj,
braking is longer than 4.34. It is quite noticeable and I did notice it as well. But I put that on normal behavior for Anti skid
Anti Skid does prevent wheel blocking but on dry condition makes braking distance a bit longer just like ABS on a car (at least that is my understanding)Okay … I will do some tests.
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Dee-Jay, you have probably always landed like a pro:-)
More likely, I haven’t flown enough for months / years.
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Please show me a video of a test where ABS caused an increase in max effort braking distance… if you lock a wheel you don’t just lose control, you lose braking effort also. Have a look at the mu of a tire in good contact with the road versus the same tire skidding.
Once I saw a crew doing training at max effort landing dispatched without antiskid in a paved runway. First landing they made, two tires blew out. lol…
You are right, antiskid decreases landing distance always.
Airbus aircraft ANTISKID ON:
https://i.imgur.com/5SzqQdT.png
Same conditions ANTISKID OFF
https://i.imgur.com/XWvPmdx.png