BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal
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Good Day, All,
I did some “housecleaning” with UI, moving BMS to my larger HD, and took the opportunity to test the best ways to install our Project Bug Mods. I haven’t tested on Korea 2012 ans/or Loriks’s campaigns (thats tonight ) but it has been tested in KTO and Balkans…
Step 1a) IF you want to add HTS and the F414 engine mod (see post 180),
go to 4.35>data>your campaign or skip for KTO>sim>acdata and replace the f18c.dat with the dat that’s in the Mafia Files Mediafire in my signature.
1b) For the F-18 E or F, simply go to their acdata file and change the HTS value from zero to one
Step2a ) Bug cockpit- go to 4.35>data>art >ckptart and replace the 1799 file with the one in the Mafia Files.
2B) Rhino 'pit.- go to the 1958 ( F18E),1959(f18F),and/or ea-18 folders>3dckpit.dat file and change the pilot leg model to 1913
Then, replace the Rhino/Growler ckptart>3dbutton.dat with the Mod 2 , also in the Mefia Files
The Mod 2 will also work, with a bit a tweaking ,in the other Hornet variants. See post 178, using the EF-18M as an example.
ps: this post, and the F414 mod, are being added to the Manual as we speak…what about fuel consumption with the F414? actually the bug is a fuel eater
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With “clean” 435, both Bug and SuperBug fuel flow are pretty accurate.
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what about fuel consumption with the F414? actually the bug is a fuel eater
Hi, Guys,
Topolo, I agree. In fact, IMHO, I think the Bug and Rhino flight models are pretty darn good. The Devs laid a good foundation.
Seb,
This is actually something I’ve looked at. What would happen if it was done in real life? I ran into the fact that there are a LOT of variables. You have the same physical size but higher thrust engines in a smaller/lighter airframe. On the other hand, the Rhino has 33% more fuel internally. Then there’s the Rhino drag penalty from the canted wing pylons. Basically, Compadre, what I’m saying is I’m NOT an aeronautical engineer!
Inside BMS, things get a bit murkier still. The Rhino acdata does not have the fuel flow data the Bug does. We knew the Rhino flight model was not as developed as the Bug, so that’s expected. The Fuel data both acdata’s do contain is fuelflowfactornormal (0.500/0.853 for c/E models) and fuelflowfactorAB (1.170/1.850). So, yes the values are higher, but again, it’s in a larger plane.
I didn’t want to mess up the jet, so what I copy/pasted to the Bug acdata was the 414 thrust values only (at idle/mid/AB.) BTW, don’t forget to delete the old Bug thrust values.
I can tell you that in the jet fuel range with the 414 seems even better then with the 404. Possibly because you don’t have to hold as high a throttle setting. So, the short answer is -If you do the 414 mod it won’t kill your range, and the jet is more fun to fly… -
This baby was opened back in January: https://bmsbugs.blu3wolf.com/view.php?id=31&nbn=4#bugnotes
Can someone confirm for me if this was fixed in U1, or if its still open?
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This baby was opened back in January: https://bmsbugs.blu3wolf.com/view.php?id=31&nbn=4#bugnotes
Can someone confirm for me if this was fixed in U1, or if its still open?
Hi,Blu,
As far as I know, it hasn’t been resolved. -
Good Day, All,
I’ve been asked to check out the F-14 cockpit in Korea 2012. I took a look at the Tomcat and the flight model is good, the jet is fun, but the 'pit was sad. I don’t have the database , or skills, to make the real 'pit, work. However, I was able to get the Mod 2 Hornet cockpit( the one we’ve made all the changes to) set up in the F-14.
You’re invited to check out the Mafia Files in the Mediafire in my Signature. That folder replaces the original ckptart>F-14D folder. I recommend backup up the original, first. Many thanks to Crazyjap , from the 4.33 days, for getting me on the right path.
How to do it in other jets….- go to the 4.35>data> your theater>art>ckptart>your jet’s folder and copy the 1-2 lines of wings model.
Ex; Tomcat- cockpitwingsmodel 1386; // the 3d cockpit wings model
cockpitwingsdfmodel 1386; // the dogfight wings variant - Move the Mod 2 files to your jet, delete it’s wing modeling above, and paste in your jet’s.
What you’ll end up with is a fully functional F-18 pit in your jet.
- go to the 4.35>data> your theater>art>ckptart>your jet’s folder and copy the 1-2 lines of wings model.
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Hi, Guys,
Topolo, I agree. In fact, IMHO, I think the Bug and Rhino flight models are pretty darn good. The Devs laid a good foundation.
Seb,
This is actually something I’ve looked at. What would happen if it was done in real life? I ran into the fact that there are a LOT of variables. You have the same physical size but higher thrust engines in a smaller/lighter airframe. On the other hand, the Rhino has 33% more fuel internally. Then there’s the Rhino drag penalty from the canted wing pylons. Basically, Compadre, what I’m saying is I’m NOT an aeronautical engineer!
Inside BMS, things get a bit murkier still. The Rhino acdata does not have the fuel flow data the Bug does. We knew the Rhino flight model was not as developed as the Bug, so that’s expected. The Fuel data both acdata’s do contain is fuelflowfactornormal (0.500/0.853 for c/E models) and fuelflowfactorAB (1.170/1.850). So, yes the values are higher, but again, it’s in a larger plane.
I didn’t want to mess up the jet, so what I copy/pasted to the Bug acdata was the 414 thrust values only (at idle/mid/AB.) BTW, don’t forget to delete the old Bug thrust values.
I can tell you that in the jet fuel range with the 414 seems even better then with the 404. Possibly because you don’t have to hold as high a throttle setting. So, the short answer is -If you do the 414 mod it won’t kill your range, and the jet is more fun to fly…The bug is so beatiful and is so good flying, i agree with you, thanks for you reply
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Hi, Seb, glad you like it!
All,
I have a question for the Group… I was taking a look at the F-35 last night. The 'pit is pretty good, but things like JFS seem to be missing. I’m torn between putting the full Mod 2 pit in or tweaking the cool/futuristic f-35 pit. What do you think? Btw, does anyone know which ckptart folders are the F-35 ones? 1890,2017,3122,3127,and 3132 are the ones that are no labeled somewhere.
Joe -
Good Day, All,
I’ve been asked to check out the F-14 cockpit in Korea 2012. I took a look at the Tomcat and the flight model is good, the jet is fun, but the 'pit was sad. I don’t have the database , or skills, to make the real 'pit, work. However, I was able to get the Mod 2 Hornet cockpit( the one we’ve made all the changes to) set up in the F-14.Guess what, dear Brother?
That’s not “Better this than nothing.”, it’s truly great instead! And a smart idea, too.
With best compliments and regards.
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Hi, Seb, glad you like it!
All,
I have a question for the Group… I was taking a look at the F-35 last night. The 'pit is pretty good, but things like JFS seem to be missing. I’m torn between putting the full Mod 2 pit in or tweaking the cool/futuristic f-35 pit. What do you think? Btw, does anyone know which ckptart folders are the F-35 ones? 1890,2017,3122,3127,and 3132 are the ones that are no labeled somewhere.
JoeDear Joe,
my one cent here would be: go for the second one, if possible.
About your question, just to make it short and fast (and not becasue I’m as lazy as my usual :D): have you already tried with… hhmmm, seeking those within that MC perhaps?
Good luck!
With best regards,
Gianni.
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As I haven’t seen that mentioned in the thread so far.
I went with a Mirage user through the process of adding or checking hotspots in the Mirage pit as he was missing the JFS and canopy hotspot.
1. he wasn’t aware of the set g_b3DClickableCockpitDebug 1 option in the falcon bms.cfg file in order to show the click hotspots and the size boxes.
2. that the hotspot was existing but didn’t show up or was clickable because old callbacks were still assinged in the 3d buttons.dat -
Hi, Guys,
Gianni, in all seriousness it means a lot when someone who’s been around awhile enjoys what I’m trying to do here. I know it sounds very corny, but BMS has given me a lot over the years. This is my payback…
Getting back to business- Thanks to a pm I just got, I now know how to find ckpitart folders that aren’t labeled. The F-36 c is 3113. BTW, I’ll be updating the Manual with this, how to load the Mods 2 pit in other jets, and what I find out about tweaking the Panther. Speaking of which, I’ve decided to try to tweak the existing Panther 'pit. If it blows up at least will have the Mod 2 Bug pit as backup
Which brings us to you, Oak. Thx.I was of the clickablecockpitdebug trick, guess what I’m playing with tonight? My trouble with CCDebug is I don’t know (yet,hopefully) how to generate the spatial coordinates. to make my own hotspots. That will be Project Phase 1 tonight. That’s what I would really like to accomplish. If I can’t figure that out , I noticed that the F-35 'pit has a number of hotspots doing things like changing mfd displays, and such. So, I can reassign these known hotspots to things like jfs, for example.
Quick update before really diving in. I plugged cockpitlegsmodel 1913; into the existing 3113 3dckpit, and that leg model looks good in’pit. So, I should be able to get the kneeboards working, too -
Gianni, in all seriousness it means a lot when someone who’s been around awhile enjoys what I’m trying to do here. I know it sounds very corny, but BMS has given me a lot over the years. This is my payback…
Dear Joe,
couldn’t be more serious than this me too.
All what I wrote about you is only the Irespect due to all those guys (just like you) are sparing a piece of their free time, duties, family affairs and so on to contribute in making a flight simulation we love all better and better.I’m not to forget this also, and I’m precisely underlining it instead: and all always for free!
It’s our pride. We all understand until so well what I mean.This premitted as it’s due, I dare to beg all of you, far and far more expert than I may ever wish to become, to be always clear in your explainations, speaking especially about writing in plain those procedures we are supposed to follow carefully.
No one wish to ‘pork’ anything, I believe, but only to have fun more and more with our reference sim.
Please all always count in full on that few I am, and will be, able to do with at the purposes above.
With best regards, Brother (but I do prefer to call you Fratello, told this in my language).
Have a nice (and always safe, most of all!) day.Gianni.
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Hi, Gianni,
I’m hardly an expert, but I consider that an advantage, at least in terms of showing and explaining things.
All,
Tonight I’ve made some progress with the F-35 'pit. JFS,parking brakes, landing lights, and kneeboards (4.35 hotspot issues) are all working. I just got done flying a F-35 mission, and the -35C is carrier capable T
The 'pit is still a WIP in terms of controls, displays, and hotspots.
Controls-. For those who haven’t flown the F-35, it has the same cockpit model as the F-22. That causes some issues, such as no wing fold or launch bar levers. I solved it by assigning them to HOTAS switches with keyboard backups. Gotta love the Alternate Launcher.
Displays, The pit has 2 normal mfds, a central display with a RWR page, one below that I guess is supposed an engine display(with 2 rpm gauges-remember-F-22 shared model), an upper right one with an kind of electric ADI, and a caution/warning panel upper left. The 2 mfds have completely normal function. The 2 central displays have the normal 20 osb’s around them with hotspots duplicating the mfds. I thought-cool-that’s 20 known hotspot locations that are spare for things with no controls like IFF, AVTR, etc. For some reason though, reassigning those hotspots hasn’t worked. The big issue display-wise is no HSI , backup flight gauges (how to set QNH-good question),and no engine/fuel gauges. I added HSI, fuel, and engine gauges to my basic MFDE display and tried another mission, but ctd’d almost immediately. I’m going to try again.
So, basically, the default Panther pit has potential. -
I’ve been working on a Helios touch screen profile for the Hornet. It’s a work in progress but makes flying the hornet so much easier in BMS
Helios F-18 Profile for BMS
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Wheelchock, that looks fantastic. That you can temporarily bring up the side panels is very smart. What size touchscreen do you use for that amount of instruments to be manageable ?
Come to think of it, you could actually build an entire cockpit outside the game that is different from what you have on the main monitor. So for instance, if some aircraft does not have a native cockpit but an F-16 cockpit in BMS 3D, then you could just show the HUD on the main monitor and have proper instruments in Helios. Of course, the callbacks still have to match but for prototyping new visuals for cockpit instruments this could be used
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Thanks jayb. This profile currently is using Capt Zeens graphics but I am currently working on my own graphics (hope to finish soon) that will replace them. The touch screen I am using is 22". Its not big but not small either. Helios definitely allows a creator to make an interface however they want. The limits are really just your imagination and time to get it done. Helios is a good use for interfacing with aircraft that don’t have a full 3D pit or the switch mappings are not totally flushed out but there are callbacks for , like the F-18. I have plans to create a template card that pops up on the main monitor that calculates the turns in a case I landing based on reported BRC that you the user would select, kind of like dialing the CRS or HDG bug. I see it more of a training tool but could be useful.
Current feature set of this profile
1. All F-18 switches / dials that are mapped in 3D are mapped in the profile the same way its done in BMS.
2. Currently using linknets Kneeboard updater code that exists in the Ice 4.35 profile
3. Currently using the Charts from the Ice 4.35 profile (will update as some things are not relevant to the Hornet, like checklists)
4. Implemented the use of EZWatch (EZBoards) to generated a kneeboard of the BMS Briefing then pull it into the profile for use with the Kneeboard in the profile
5. Implements theater detection (taken from linknets Ice 4.35 profile) so that the charts that are displayed are for the theater you are flying in
6. created working EIFI gauge
7. Reworked the EHSI taken from Ice 4.35 profile and made it work and look like the one in the hornet
8. Created a callsign name plate for your flight (with the help of linknet)Currently I am struggling with the switchology and names. We all know the switches really control what would be an F-16 pit but some names on panels are Hornet specific. So do I go with renaming some of the switch labels so its easier to locate the switch of do I stay with Hornet labels?
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So after looking at the 3D pit and the BMS F18 cockpit doc is clear that some buttons are mapped in 3D but not documented like the D/L on the UFC. Does anyone have an up to date list or do i have to go through the cockpit dat file to figure it out?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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So after looking at the 3D pit and the BMS F18 cockpit doc is clear that some buttons are mapped in 3D but not documented like the D/L on the UFC. Does anyone have an up to date list or do i have to go through the cockpit dat file to figure it out?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hi, Wheelchock.
Have you checked the new 'pit diagrams in the Fighters Manual (in my signature Mediafile)? It shows almost all of the changes we made in the “Mod 2” cockpit. Also, feel free to contact me.
To answer your earlier question about whether to rename switches… I can tell you with fair assurance that the BMS Hornet will always have Viper avionics. So, IMHO, putting Viper switch labels in the Bug/Rhino pit would be great.
BTW, thank you for your efforts with the Hornet! Would you like to join the Mafia?
PS: I pm’d you -
Good Day, All,
Brother Chuckles asked if I would take a look at the K’2012 F-14 and it’s austere cockpit. There a way to put the “Mod 2” Hornet 'pit in it, inspired by a 4.33-era thread by Crazyjap. But, I’m hoping as I learn more, to do more with the actual visualization of the cockpit. But, for now, the Tomcat is… functional.
For the last few days I’ve been looking at the F-35C. It had the same jfs/parking brake/landing light hotspot issue as the Bug, and they have been fixed. But, I took a look beyond that. I did the same "Mod 2 Hornet 'pit mod and it works in the Panther, too. I should have the Fighters Manual updated in a day or 2. However, the basic F-35 'pit looks really cool, but at least without MFDE, lacks stuff like engine gauges and HSI. I’m hoping, as I learn more, that I can do things like Wheelchock is describing above.
Also, I was reading https://www.airforcemag.com/lockheed-to-retrofit-f-35s-for-suppression-destruction-of-enemy-air-defenses-role/ and that got me to wondering if there was an interest in the BMS Panther? I know we won’t have AESA and the 5’th gen stuff, but is there interest in seeing just off far we could develop it in BMS?