Modelling Organisation
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Somebody has interest to build choppers? There are only these in the TacRef:
- AH-1 Huey Cobra
- AH-64A Apache
- AH-64D Longbow
- CH-46 Sea Knight
- CH-47 Chinook
- CH-53 Sea Stallion
- UH-1N Huey
- UH-60L Black Hawk
- MD-500D Defender
- OH-58D Kiowa
- Ka-50 Hokum
- Mi-24 Hind
- Mi-8/17 Hip
- Westland Lynx
- AH-66 Comanche
- A-109
- A-129
I built the AH-1 and AH-64 to SP/FF more than 6~7 years ago, but my work was lost.
Best regards.
Like that? -
I’m just looking at things.
It seems LOD models use the same texture, just the engine will mip down to a lower res texture. However, even if an aircraft like a C130 Hercules is out at 10km you are still loading about 50meg of texture into the VRAM. It’s also spread over lots of textures so will be doing lots of calls to the graphics (I’m guessing as you are now shading with SM3?) for one aircraft.
Would it make sense to duplicate the texture, make it 4x smaller say (512x512 rather than 2048x2048) and then use that on the LOD models?
Since in combat you will rarely get near an aircraft to see it’s higher LOD (bar your formation which use the same texture anyway, probably), or the refuel tanker, it will mean almost EVERY other aircraft that is loaded into scene will just be loaded up with 16x less VRAM use, which is a lot.
In the case of the C130 you might even combine the textures into a single atlas and do one call on it too, rather than four!It’s all small fry in isolation, but when you are in a dogfight or escort and have maybe 5 unique planes running around you are loading maybe 2 x 2048 per AC (32meg) x 5 ~ 160meg. You could be loading 40meg just by halving the texture size lookup for LOD models, or half again would probably even be perfectly acceptable considering where the first LOD model appears after the beauty/close-up model.
You could also quite quickly/easily atlas most of these 2 or 3 texture AC into one texture/render call too.
Just curious if that has been looked into? It wouldn’t really be that hard to see the FPS impact by just running a batch to halve or quarter the folders contents in resolution size (bar the textures for YOUR specific aircraft you’ll fly during the test)
Or am I barking up the wrong tree and there are smaller mips loaded dynamically or something!?
Cheers
Dave
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Also, do weapons have LOD capability or not?
Thanks
Dave
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@Mr:
Also, do weapons have LOD capability or not?
Yes, all 3d models have LOD capability except cockpits. And even they may have the capability, but it would not be sensical.
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Like that?
Oh geez, these rotor animations still suck big time (i know, not your fault) … apart from that - great models.
About time someone got to the Helos… -
@Mr:
I’m just looking at things.
The recommendation is to use one larger texture rather than 4x smaller textures.
A model 10km away should probably not use any texture at all but this depends on what is being modelled and other variables.
Regards
Dave -
The recommendation is to use one larger texture rather than 4x smaller textures.
A model 10km away should probably not use any texture at all but this depends on what is being modelled and other variables.
Regards
DaveI just did a test. I reduced all textures to 25%, 81meg vs 1gig hehe.
Really rough here because it’s hard to set up a quick FPS test environment with lots of different aircraft and trying to get some particle systems going off etc. But I looked to have about 47/42 improvement in performance, so about 10%…
I only used 3 AC types and took off over a city airbase.
Even if that is 5% due to random error, it could be near 10% with 6 different AC types, lots of weapons going off etc. Not a huge amount but easily worth the extra 80meg in the textures folder and re-directing LOD models textures to a different texture name.
Ie, batch the dds > *_small.dds
Batch (code guru) the models LOD model texture reference to that dds.
10% saved there in the heat of combat is either smoother gameplay, or the option to crank some other stuff up higher instead that adds something of actual value?!
Thanks
Dave
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What is your PC configuration (hardware) please?
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I seem to recall a thread regarding stuttering caused by loading lots of (smaller) textures into memory instead of fewer larger textures.
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What is your PC configuration (hardware) please?
Is this me?
If so:
8gig RAM (2 4 gig sticks, 866mhz or something fancy)
2500k 4 core Intel jobby running at usual auto-overclock ~ 3.3ghz
GTX275 with 896meg or something, latest driver bar one, standard clock rates
1920x1200 screen
G25 wheel plugged in for rudder and gears
Logitech Attack 3 (the shame!) for joystick
Win 7 on an SSD
Swap file on another SSD
BMS on a 2tb fast hdd (sata6 is it?)
Win7 64I had a few reference points on FPS, the other was 106 vs 90 (again ~ 10% with wooliness ratio added in because the test wasn’t exactly the same each time) which was with objects/density turned right down (so textures were the primary ‘load’ I guess), looking back at an airport full of F16’s, B2’s and Tornados.
Thanks
Dave
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I seem to recall a thread regarding stuttering caused by loading lots of (smaller) textures into memory instead of fewer larger textures.
My FPS were a bit slower at first, I guess as stuff is loaded in and all the particle systems get ‘aged’ and haze and so on all become steady state.
I’m generally impressed F4 runs as well as it does but I guess it’s been down to strict adherence to the low batch count, ptypes, not sure what the exact term is here
It’d be nice to optimise some stuff to then relax other stuff for the authors to be more creative in efficient ways. I totally get and really appreciate the BMS team wanting to keep things solid and clean, it’s what makes it even work today… which is also why I really want to make a nice EF Typhoon for it as it’s a great canvas to work on imo!
Dave
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3ds Max Tips & Tricks (maybe helpful)
http://www.louismarcoux.com/MaxTips.htmCheers
Biker -
First post updated.
Completed models have been removed from the list.
Looks like we need some momentum on blue ground forces.
Regards
Dave -
MDK-2-D should be a red ARV?
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Hi Hayab,
MDK-2-D should be a red ARV?
yeah should be a ARV…
Real MDK-2 is this (no much use):
http://www.panzerbaer.de/helper/nva_pimasch_mdk-2m-a.htmSo if you want to update we probably should rename it in DB also (BTS-2/4 or BREM-X).
Cheers
Biker -
What about more simplier stuff? Lots of weapons and drop tanks should get more detailed model and skin. Most of drop tanks have very inaccurate LOD. For ex. the 180 gal drop tank is bigger than 253 gal drop tank…
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While I can’t promise anything (time is a precious commodity) if sources of information were made readily available it would increase the chances of this stuff getting done. A drop tank could be modelled in a few hours but it may take twice that length of time to find out the correct dimensions, collect reference photos etc.
Things that are useful:
Length, height, width, diameter, 3 view drawings, photos, details about what aircraft use the stores etc.
Regards
Dave -
Roger. I’m on it.
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I have to say the time has come to make a post about a topic which has been mentioned several times. The inspiration came from this thread.
The topic is to get some manual about how sohuld be made 3D model and how they can converted into Falcon’s world. The time has come to have such a document… I know that modelers likely wish to work on models and not on manuals but there are lots of talanted professional modelers who wish to upgrade the 3D models of BMS4 but they do not know how can be imported stuff. I simply do not understand the resource management of developers. I know that makeing a step by step manual is very painful and time consuming, but it have to done only once. Just as an estimation let us assume that creating such a maunal what is needed requires the same ammount of work as creathing a 100% functional new aircraft. In this case one AC is sacrified for a manual. What is the result? N+1 modeler can make new additional 3D models, therefore investement - the time which was sacrificed - is quice quicly “repayed”.
I know two professional Hungarian modeler/skinner, VO101Tom and LESCO. You can see their skills. They made these with only some hour of work, they were made without PDS templates.
They are very skilled 3D modelers I have seen some of there reference. Of course aircraft are the most complex thing in Falcon but I have to say generally ground vehicles are far worse than AC.
They wish to help but do not know how should put their work into Falcon. In first step I reccommend to leard simplier things, such as ground vehicles or even more simplier things, drop tanks, missiles, rocketsEven the most complex SHORAD/AD or other vehicles has only “two DOF item”, their turrets. So if anyone explain in first step about how can be imported ground vehicles it can resulted that neglected vehices general quality can be much higher as currently. Existing LODs are many times 10+ year old, and there are so many garbage in DB which be replaced with another 3D model.
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Roger. I’m on it.
As I promised, here is pack about red ordnance.