Different Air to Air fighting modes? Need help
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I just start to learn different modes employed in air to air combat. I read many posts on this subject and also watched a few tutorials, including Krause’s (btw, it’s very informative and well made, thanks). However the more researchs I do on this subject, the more I am getting confused. Can someone give me a lesson on this? This is what I understand so far (correct me if I am wrong):
1. A-A Mode is a master mode you enter from ICP
2. MRM and dgft are 2 override modes you can jump into from any other modes
3. In AA mode, you have leisure to setup radar and SMS pages
4. You can have different MFD setups for each of AA, MRM and dgft modes
5. In addition, there are different radar modes: ACM, Bore, Slew, vertical scan etc.
6. TMS locks(bugs) targets and TMS right can step targets in TWS mode (any use of TMS left?)Now here are my questions:
1. You can’t jump from MRM to dgft or vice versa. You need cancel out of the current override mode in order to enter another, right?
2. Can you use msl step (>2s to select different missile type) in all three modes?
3. Bore and slav submodes can be used only in dgft mode? How do I switch between radar modes quickly in a dogfite situation without looking down and touching MFDs? How and when do we usually use all these ACM submodes?
4. In a dogfight scenario, where I used all my AIM9s and still too far to use gun and want to use 120, how do I go about to do this? Should I use dgft mode or AA master mode to accomplish this?
5. How do you loft 120s? in MRM or just AA Mode?
6. Can you lock target with missiles’ onboard seekers in closer quarter fights without the use of FCR?
It would be nice if someone can post a more advanced tutorial on different modes and radar modes for air to air combat.
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1. Yes
2. Not that I’m aware of. You can only select different weapons in A-A mastermode. MRM defaults to AIM120 and DGFT defaults to AIM9/gun.
3. Bore and Slave modes can be used in all three modes, IIRC. Cursor/Enable (Shift+N default key) will switch between them.
4. MRM mode would probably be best. I honestly never use A-A mode anymore.
5. Lofting can be done in both A-A and MRM modes. When you look at the range scale on the right of the HUD, there should be a number above the range caret (e.g. 30). That’s the angle for lofting.
6. I don’t know about MRM or A-A mode, but in DGFT mode, with AIM9s, you can hit TMS-up and it will cycle targets within the HUD.
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Small clarification, the AA radar has two modes, CRM (Combined Radar Mode) and ACM (Air Combat Mode). CRM and ACM have submodes, BORE, SLEW, 20, 60 are submodes of ACM, intended for use in WVR combat. You can select either CRM or ACM and any of their submodes while in any master mode or override mode.
1. Correct.
2. Yes.
3. a. I imagine you mean SLEW, not SLAVE. No you can use them in any master or override mode as long as you have the radar in ACM.
b. TMS switches between ACM submodes.
c. Depends on situation, read the manual to understand the differences between them and their uses should be apparent enough.4. If you can visually see the enemy, DGFT is your best option. MRM works too though.
5. Either one.
6. What type of missile?
As for a tutorial, its really not that complicated, but you do have to read the manual. In short though, radar modes have nothing to do with master modes. The difference is that master and override modes have different default settings, for example DGFT defaults to ACM and heaters while MRM defaults to CRM and slammers. And of course that the DGFT mode has different HUD symbology. However you can setup the master and override modes as you like, including MFD pages and radar modes and submodes.
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Thanks for the tips. I also tried a few self made AA missions. Now I got a better feel of different modes. I guess it takes practice. However, I still haven’t figured out how to enter ACM slew mode from HOTAS (without using MFD). Seems TMS left has no use in AA fights.
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You enter SLEW by… slewing the cursor
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3. when you switch into dogfight mode the heater goes Bore and the HUD displays “NO RAD”. After selecting a ACM mode with the TMS the heater is slaved. Bore does not alert the target RWR. good for ambush.
4. if the FCR is has lock it will stay locked when you change modes. After locking heads-down or heads-up, you can change weapons with the dogfight switch without losen lock. Sometimes I will lock in dogfight and change to MRM to display more info on the the HUD. Sometime I lock with heads-down and change to dogfight mode to fire the heater.
You use the DgFt swith to select you’re best locking mode. After locking use the switch to select weapon.
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3. when you switch into dogfight mode the heater goes Bore and the HUD displays “NO RAD”. After selecting a ACM mode with the TMS the heater is slaved. Bore does not alert the target RWR. good for ambush.
4. if the FCR is has lock it will stay locked when you change modes. After locking heads-down or heads-up, you can change weapons with the dogfight switch without losen lock. Sometimes I will lock in dogfight and change to MRM to display more info on the the HUD. Sometime I lock with heads-down and change to dogfight mode to fire the heater.
You use the DgFt swith to select you’re best locking mode. After locking use the switch to select weapon.
bore should definitely alert the RWR, if you use bore radar mode and get a lock, thats still a lock - and the RWR should behave accordingly.
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bore should definitely alert the RWR, if you use bore radar mode and get a lock, thats still a lock - and the RWR should behave accordingly.
It depends on if you are talk’n FCR ACM modes or heaters modes. Since the OP was talk’n DGFT mode I assume he was talk’n heater modes.
And if the OP was talk’n FCR modes Bore is a slaved sub mode.
Bore and slav submodes can be used only in dgft mode?
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btw, cursor/enable will toggle missile bore/slave modes. Hovever, imo, it is mainly used for 120s.
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Whoa some confusion is starting to show here.
3. when you switch into dogfight mode the heater goes Bore and the HUD displays “NO RAD”. After selecting a ACM mode with the TMS the heater is slaved. Bore does not alert the target RWR. good for ambush.
The heater does not go to bore in DGFT, it starts out as slaved. The radar goes to ACM 20 and to standby, hence the NO RAD message. The heater does not alert the RWR regardless if its in bore or slave. The radar alerts the RWR if its locked on something, regardless if its in BORE or any other mode. You seem to have heater modes and ACM submodes mixed up.
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now I see why there is a bug in the heater that no one cares about.
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What bug?
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i personally never use radar in WVR/Dogfight mode…if you set your Aim9s to bore mode and use the HMCS you can lock a bandit just by looking at him (be sure to uncage once you’ve got lock), without giving him any RWR warning (as mentioned before).
And i would recommend using the A-A master mode (instead of DGFT mode) to set the Aim9s to bore (the default mode is slave, i believe), and do this long before there’s any chance of combat (there’s no time to switch from slave to bore when you’re already in the middle of a fight!)…because DGFT master mode will automatically use the Aim9 coolant, and the coolant is limited (only about an hours worth).
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(there’s no time to switch from slave to bore when you’re already in the middle of a fight!)…
i disagree. When first entering DGFT mode the radar is “stand by”. The missile can’t be slaved to a “stand by” FCR, therefore, it must be in BORE or work as if it’s in BORE mode. Unless, somebody tells me that the winder does not growl, uncage, or lock when it’s in slave mode and the FCR is on “stand by”.
Every thing is done HOTAS including silence the radar.
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i disagree. When first entering DGFT mode the radar is “stand by”. The missile can’t be slaved to a “stand by” FCR, therefore, it must be in BORE or work as if it’s in BORE mode.
It is in slave mode, the fact that the FCR is not tracking something (so there’s nothing to slave to) is irrelevant. Just go in the sim, switch to dogfight and watch the SMS where it says SLAVE.
Unless, somebody tells me that the winder does not growl, uncage, or lock when it’s in slave mode and the FCR is on “stand by”.
Again, irrelevant. The AIM-9 does not work like the AIM-120, in that it gets no data from the radar. To track a target it just needs to be in the seeker’s FOV (the diamond) and the missile be uncaged. What slave mode does is make the seeker follow the radar LOS, so locking up a target means the AIM-9 seeker is automatically looking at it and you just need to uncage. But it works perfectly fine without tracking a target or with the FCR on standby as well, the difference is the seeker will be looking straight ahead and you have to maneuver to get the target in its FOV.
In simpler words, slave or bore mode for the heaters only affects where the seeker head will be looking. The seeker actually tracking a target though is completely independent from radar operation and is all done by the missile itself.
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I disagree.
It is in slave mode, the fact that the FCR is not tracking something (so there’s nothing to slave to) is irrelevant
It’s very much relevant when talking about using HOTAS to cammand weapon system.
“slave mode”/“bore mode” is irrelevevant. I’ve never changed a heater to “bore mode” to use the heater diamond as a bore sight when the FCR is stand-by.
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there’s no time to switch from slave to bore when you’re already in the middle of a fight!
Cursor/Enable switch. I think. It switches from slave to bore with the AIM120 so I can only assume it does the same with the AIM9. I’m typically not around by the time engagements become WVR.
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@RPG:
Yeah what bug?, come on spit it out!, we want to know!!!..…I love heaters, up close dogfighting with the HMCS…awesome!, never noticed any bug though??
The seeker is only slaved when the radar has lock and the seaker is caged. (that’s the way it was in F4AF)
In BMS, if the seaker is uncaged and lock on a target and then the radar is locked on a different target the heater diamond will move to the radar locked target. However, when fired, the heater will track the target that was orginally lock by the seeker. The missile hits the a/c without the diamond.
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I disagree.
You don’t get to disagree, that’s the way it works. Not my opinion, fact. When the heater is in SLAVE mode, it is in SLAVE mode, whether you agree or not.
It’s very much relevant when talking about using HOTAS to cammand weapon system.
It’s irrelevant as in, the heater can be in SLAVE mode but not slaved to anything. It can also be in BORE mode, but not aligned with the boresight. What mode the missile is in, is described by… what mode it is in, not the way you use it. When the SMS says SLAVE, then its in SLAVE mode, simple as that. I can also navigate while in AG master mode, that does not mean I am automatically in NAV mode.
“slave mode”/“bore mode” is irrelevevant. I’ve never changed a heater to “bore mode” to use the heater diamond as a bore sight when the FCR is stand-by.
First of all you don’t use the diamond as a boresight, the diamond (seeker head) is aligned with the missile’s boresight. And yes, you don’t need to switch to BORE, what’s your point? Whenever the seeker is caged and not commanded to move (FCR, JHMCS) it is always aligned with the boresight. That does not mean it is in BORE mode. A mode is a software profile of the missile that makes it behave a certain way, much like many other avionics related “modes”, and is only changeable through the SMS or the enable switch. Just because the missile might be doing one thing that might be common to another mode, it does not mean it has magically changed to that mode.
Cursor/Enable switch. I think. It switches from slave to bore with the AIM120 so I can only assume it does the same with the AIM9. I’m typically not around by the time engagements become WVR.
It does do the same with AIM-9, as long as it is depressed it switches from SLAVE to BORE if SLAVE was previously selected, or from BORE to SLAVE if BORE was previously selected.