3D Cities for Falcon…
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Arty, I borrowed your pic due to laziness.
Instead of trying to model every city individually, create blocks instead. That picture only uses two or three different types of buildings. Even the pic’s in the first post of this thread use about 6 different types of buildings, they just added a slight scaling factor to change the height on some of them. So, model a set of buildings, from high rise commercial/residential down to single homes perhaps. Than a few industrial buildings. Once those are built, you can than go into falcon and start building different types of cities. To keep it simple, we have large, medium, small, and rural types of cities. You would essentially make each tile in falcon a city block, make up a few variations of these tiles for the different density’s and than piece them together.
I’m pretty sure you can save the layout of buildings on the tiles in falcon so that you can plop that layout down anywhere else you’d like, RAM knows more about that one, I don’t care to venture past doing anything except textures for falcon due to a fairly large personnel project going on at the moment.
Make sense? Harder trying to describe than I thought it’d be, lol. And, if you need textures, I can help ya out, I’m currently working on some building textures at the moment anyways. Here’s a pic of one texture that’s tiled 4x4:
I thought I remembered reading something about BMS wanting atlas textures for buildings though, not sure how that one is set up.
If you do it, I’d be willing to help you out with the ground textures that you place the buildings on as well, in order to match up everything to the placement of the buildings!
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Yes that is possible. But what about terrain leveling?
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Instead of blocks, stripes of buildings and follow the elevation. Also u can do it as is in falcon. Is there a way to see them in 3ds or inprovise let’s create - find a way.
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Beginings are always not easy….
Implementation of new 3D elements seems more than desirable and logical. Question was posed by someone how to introduce new building to DB and how it is practically done. The reply by Arty was that it was there:https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?11749-Arty-s-Hot-List
Development Wisdom - Tutorials
How to add NEW AIRBASES… Finding the way.
F4Patch Guide
F4Patch + LOD replacing/injection tutorial?
LE TEXTURE Utility - All Falcon Versions (for Skinners)
Autotiler (CATE) for 4 byte 64 size terrain (tilling tricks and tips)
Tiles & opacity(water) channel question
Theater developmental notes - Available Tool’s
Tutorial: Creating and Adding Squadron Patches to your InstallWhich of them specifically?
In a way I believe the answer is at How to add NEW AIRBASES… Finding the way at post #24 by Demer928:
I’ve been a bit remiss on sharing what I’ve learned about Custom AB’s.Though some older developer’s are interested in that area and have asked, I have been reticint to reply.
So to help Joe and other’s along in their quest,I’ll try and spell out some guideline’s here.
That is ,if you don’t mind Joe???
First and foremost an “Objective” as it relate’s to the DATABase in Falcon, is an “Entity” unlike any other’s, that can “Contain” FEATURE DATA (model’s) also, as far as AB’s…… POINT DATA.
It doe’s NOT need to contain any DATA in Falcon to exist.
EXAMPLE:Add-Copy CT 0 in F4Browse,ya’ get a new CT record, say 3798. Add-Copy Objective 0 in Objectives in F4Browse,ya’ get a new Objective,say 749. Match the Offset to the CT record and now you have a new BLANK objective “entity”.Name it and add it to your map via the new OCD number.
Now you have an “Objective” that is devoid of any feature’s\point data that you can now add and manipulate.Get it???
demer
BTW: I prefer to do my AB’s edit’s in Buzzy’s BMS editor,though the tool can be better…(Hint,Hint… when ya’ get a minute ;)) I also use Monster’s tool for a “LookSee” on the tile’s,as well as the OCD in the .tac,.cam file’s.
thanx demer928
Also here:
http://tactical.nekromantix.com/tactical/wiki/doku.php?id=falcon4:database:editingtutorialAm I correct now Polak?
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LOL just had an idea for easy with speed of the light destruction models creation… Just build the same block with way lower heights and use specific textures…
Does any one has some kind of those or a direction where to look at? Or I should take the High Way look up google go to pictures download and start making them?Also there is already a request on this to the developer of GhostTown… No response yet though… He is full cause he is about to finish the next release of this plugin…
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Thank you Arty for your reply .
For some hints and inspiration how to model destruction you may look here.
http://www.digitaltutors.com/11/training.php?pid=220
It may be too involved though and your way of lowering the hight and adding “destroyed” textures is good idea.In 3dsMax there are some quick modifiers which mess up the mesh pretty realistically. Take a look also at nCloth or RayFire but that maybe not necessary after you apply some perlin noise and texture to your scene.
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Now now now… well
Have a look…
OPEN STREET MAP IMPORT:
So now let’s get serious Ladies and Gentleman…
Anything to say??? Realistic tiles… huh this is the way… Can Open street map get imported to Falcon???.. and redo all the theaters…
//Arty runs and runs and runs… no hide… just run…
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Now now now… well
Have a look…
OPEN STREET MAP IMPORT:
So now let’s get serious Ladies and Gentleman…
Anything to say??? Realistic tiles… huh this is the way… Can Open street map get imported to Falcon???.. and redo all the theaters…
//Arty runs and runs and runs… no hide… just run…
Good luck with your project.
If your 3D cities can be applied in Falcon world, it will be a revolution I want to experience.
Force will be with you. -
Guys ,
If you really want this project to leave some mark on Falcon, IMHO the best chance is to try to work with what already existing. There are multitude LOD models of cities, towns , settlements , industrial objects already in Falcon. Why not improve them by growing them larger?
You can double, triple all the way to n-uple by copy@ paste, and then transpose: move & rotate virtually any element of the existing database. You can ADD new elements, new buildings and industrial or military complexes, new super airbases. This can be really well coordinated with background tiles to give more robust look in 3D.There is virtually unlimited number of possibilities already within our reach without kind of inventing the wheel, which is fine for the purpose of the posting, but not really for practical follow up and implementation in the 3D engine.
What is perhaps needed is little more user friendly interface of LOD Editor and some serious individual commitment. Yes… little learning and unfortunately lots of time. Just my 2c…
EDIT:maybe it can be done, maybe not. LODEditor is crashing a lot
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You can double, triple all the way to n-uple by copy@ paste, and then transpose: move & rotate virtually any element of the existing database. You can ADD new elements, new buildings and industrial or military complexes, new super airbases. This can be really well coordinated with background tiles to give more robust look in 3D.There is virtually unlimited number of possibilities already within our reach without kind of inventing the wheel, which is fine for the purpose of the posting, but not really for practical follow up and implementation in the 3D engine.
Been doing it for several months now in IT-BMS. All new construction of objectives. Moving all features so none sit on roads, etc. It takes a while and is a lot of work but I’m about 70% done. Once I finish, I can get it off to Itai.
RAM22
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Guys ,
If you really want this project to leave some mark on Falcon, IMHO the best chance is to try to work with what already existing. There are multitude LOD models of cities, towns , settlements , industrial objects already in Falcon. Why not improve them by growing them larger?
You can double, triple all the way to n-uple by copy@ paste, and then transpose: move & rotate virtually any element of the existing database. You can ADD new elements, new buildings and industrial or military complexes, new super airbases. This can be really well coordinated with background tiles to give more robust look in 3D.There is virtually unlimited number of possibilities already within our reach without kind of inventing the wheel, which is fine for the purpose of the posting, but not really for practical follow up and implementation in the 3D engine.
What is perhaps needed is little more user friendly interface of LOD Editor and some serious individual commitment. Yes… little learning and unfortunately lots of time. Just my 2c…
EDIT:maybe it cant be done, maybe not. LODEditor is crashing a lot
I couldn’t agree more. Here’s the thing that chaps my hide… if you tell people to stop dreaming and get to work, they tell you that you’re being negative. Well, this is a classic case. The ability to add buildings are already in Falcon. So why hasn’t more work been done on that front? Two reasons: 1) With the current engine it will kill FPS and by default, immersion. 2) It’s HARD and takes TIME. I propose the people spending literally hundreds of hours posting on these forums should instead spend some of that time actually doing some of the things they propose others do. The excuse of “I don’t know how” is irrelevant, since these same folks also want to come across as the experts of these subjects. Really, it’s time for a reality check and give some respect to the theater creators who DO spend the time and energy doing it as quickly and efficiently as can be done.
Sorry for the rant, but this is getting old.
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+1!!!
RAM22
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Well a city working sketch of all it’s major roads took me 15 minutes. Let’s say 30 with Google earth and capture the area and import it to 3d studio. Yes there are match to be done than this but most are done either way…
Now, the every building one object I refuse it, cause even now we can’t bomb the photorealistic tiles. We can have more but all is undo able time wise.
About the sounds negative well this is Falcon… same all. If u (u in general I mean) take it personally than lol.
This try of mine could be a big bluper (as always many will say) but I see the other guys starting to use it in games development - mods, one is rfactor.
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Hi Arty I was reading post, I support your effort and believe in the vision.
New ground structures are needed as I explained in thread for good reasons to enjoy the sim and I’m not just talking Cities but Oil Refinery Plants etc etc model structures you can destroy as I have demonstrated in this thread even if it looks as nice as Kimpo Int’l Air Base that will suffice instead of the Falcon 3.0 structures in current database. Yuck Falcon 3.0 to old now with many defects which have been discussed in other threads a few months back.
So then all this could be used and implemented into new campaigns in new theaters before new theaters are released.
Like I said earlier, guys on youtube say they can do small structures in a couple of hrs and larger installations in a few days so this is doable with that information already.
Please read all my above posts also for more info and understanding.
I am beginning to struggle with words now because I dont believe this effort to be a hindrance since there is many threads about people wanting or commenting about this, and many wish this to be a success, with many thanks in this thread already and I am not wishing to upset people its not personal as you say Arty.
I hope we all can agree on that!
I believe we can agree we Falcon pilots all want a good sim to fly, I take those thoughts from the forum posts that I read day in day out!
Arty, I can offer some time to help you if you like you would have to give me instructions but I believe it would be very time consuming chatting thru emails etc trying to teach me how to do this stuff…… but I had another thought what about speaking to people in those youtubes ask permission to use their models or ask them for help with this effort for BMS of ground structures when and if they can either provide those models or assist you.
I do have some spare time 1 or 2 hrs here and there and weekends to do something but people need to help me learn from scratch, this stuff I know nothing about other than what I read putting it together in my head as best as I can.
So if you show me what to do small little things to start with then I would send it to you.
For example cut and copy images and put into 3DSMAX or find textures and save them I was watching a youtube on a guy doing it but his hand was moving to fast to read the tabs he was clicking on and learn from.
As you know those software packages are complex with many steps and windows and TABS to click on but if your willing to show me little things I can do I will do it.
Now having said all that I dont have any software on my PC that creates games so something else and I wont be buying any either so which makes it difficult but if there is a way to help you email me or PM or respond in thread up to you.
I’m on holidays now for 2 weeks plenty of time to do something!
I think and believe this is worth the effort so keep going find a solution make it happen Arty and thanks again for your initiative.
Keep the faith! M8!:razz:
PS:- Please … Support the effort, “THANK”…the first post!
PM or post a reply in thread to Arty or BMARTINS if you have something to contribute!
Long Live F4!
Cheers,
:drink:
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- With the current engine it will kill FPS and by default, immersion. 2) It’s HARD and takes TIME.
It’s true,
some time ago, I made mod cities in AF:It really kills FPS.
Cheers,
Eghi -
It’s true,
some time ago, I made mod cities in AF:It really kills FPS.
Cheers,
EghiHi Eghi can I respectfully ask, on what system specs were you running at the time?
My PC is 3 years old I run BMS, BF3, DCS and XPlane10, no problem with full GFX settings!
Why I ask because, Sims are demanding on hardware and you need to upgrade every few years anyway when new sims come out!
Check “System Requirements” now for BMS, DCS, XPlane10, FC3 etc etc …… not the same as 5 years ago, right!
I dont get this fuss about FPS in gaming community, you are forced to upgrade simple fact!
Also what will be FPS in BMS as sim further develops in say 4 years time if people go by FPS no wonder people dont get the best quality or use all the effects of sim’s like Heat Blurr etc etc because settings are set to minimal and dont upgrade their systems, that’s the burden of gaming or sim’s… real life sorry my friend.
If you like sim’s you might need some upgrading!
I might add to the fact I just upgraded to Windows 7 DirectX 11 and more RAM System runs sweet … spending another $300.00 I really cant afford it but I saved up a small fortune slowly…wife gives me pocket money I save it for rainy day…see!
Well all the best!
Cheers M8,
:drink:
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This is not problem of system performance. BMS, DCS and XPlane10 is completely different graphics engines.
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Hi if I may,
Well I dont agree with “FPS” issue and debates amongst gamers!
Have you played those sims and I tell you the GFX engine much more advanced and demanding with HD 3D terrain than BMS.
BF3 alone push’s my system quite hard I hear the fans running faster.
Eg.
I think you can see that the GFX engine is much more advanced than BMS as I illustrated the point of FPS, right!
I will dare to say in honesty that playing simulators on a Laptops, I ask whats the point of that, Laptops are for business same goes for iPads I see this in Youtubes on the internet …. I scratch my head in unbelief.
They are sims for a reason right to be enjoyed as simulator games on a PC with a large screen and they are resource hungry!
Gaming PC Systems are not cheap but thats the cost and what it takes to enjoy this stuff!
Firstly, you need a GFX card installed not a integrated GFX system for starters then heaps of RAM.
Please check hardware thread for more info, not trying to be nasty or rude but its fact in all honesty.
Well there’s much debate on this subject of “FPS” on Youtube and the internet.
So if you would like to know more with “Benchmark Reports” etc etc I visit places like http://www.tomshardware.com/ for professional advice!
*** So why did I post this view, because if we the community post with concerns of this and that arguing for this because of that, sims like F4 will never develop further. So thinking forward I would rather support and assist in the choice for further development, don’t you want the F4 Sim to be developed further looking more modern and complete in all aspects to similar sims in market?
Arty and many others as you can see in thread would like the sim to look more developed and sophisticated for good purposes being a combat sim since its nearly 2013, F4 needs a new 3D terrain with new ground structures clearing the database out from the Falcon 3.0 models, looking forward right!
So peoples PC gear need’s to meet the minimum system performance requirements, this ensures everyone enjoy’s equally the sim of choice in this case BMS F4!
This view will also enable users to use all features and benefits created by the developers just like others simulators and games on the market!
There are options for those with constraints you may still purchase Falcon 4.0 Allied Force $20.00 on Ebay!
Which will enable F4 enthusiast to still enjoy the sim on much older systems….just being honest and offering an alternative!
But to hold back BMS F4 for issues like FPS should not be allowed moving forward, especially in a large community of enthusiasts and followers wishing for more developments in terrain, ground structure modeling, effects and features which will enhance the sim moving forward. etc etc etc .
********** A MUST READ **********
System Requirements - Examples Visit Here:-
BMS F4 …… https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?132
XPlane10 …… http://www.x-plane.com/?article=x-plane-10-system-requirements
Battlefield 3 …. https://help.ea.com/article/what-are-the-windows-pc-system-requirements-for-battlefield-3
So if you love flight simulators slowly build a high end gaming system …. I use Intel Extreme Motherboards to begin with as example!
Here is an example of a BMS members new system … https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?12727-New-system-ordered-for-Falcon-and-X-plane-Thoughts …… That aint no laptop but a Sim Machine, darn hobbies…they cost us heaps but worth the fun.
Thanks for chatting!
Take care bud.
***** Sorry Arty back on TOPIC!
PS:- Please … Support the effort, “THANK”…the first post!
PM or post a reply in thread to Arty or BMARTINS if you have something to contribute!
Long Live F4!
Kind Regards,
SkyKnight
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those where one building was one object or one block of buildings one object?
and when u say FPS kill how much? Also if I’m not mistaken AF was DX7??? so yes even only one cube for the whole city with no textures would kill the FPS… -
SkyKnight Let me first complete one whole city and import it to Falcon and see what Happens… Every minute I get better on it… I just discovered the easy way to create the smaller blocks with smooth and tessellate… to reduce the gaps between the buildings… I just finished the first build of the whole Volos… YYYYeeeeeeaaaaaaa…
Give me a moment to ready some screenshots…Now on the subject… If this works as wanted and liking to the majority here, than I will post a guide to help even a total newb to do it blindly… I talk about the 3ds and the GhostTown…