Delilah missile detected by SA-10 behind hills (makes Delilah useless)
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Greetings,
I don’t know if I’m posting this in the right place but here it goes:
When playing now with 4.37 and in the Israel theater I have the issue where Delilah missiles are always detected and destroyed by SA-10 when flying behind (or covered by) hills/elevations.
I made a TE mission where the SA-10 site is located behind some hills which should have something like 1700 feet on the highest elevation and even if I program my Delilah missiles to fly lets say 1300 feet (MSL) and as such behind and covered by those hills, the SA-10 will always detect my missiles even again, when having the hills between the missile and the SA-10. And I can even watch in the Delilah’s TV/IR screen the SA-10 interceptor missiles coming off from the other side of the hill and then - Boooom - Delilah destroyed.
At the same time, my F-16 is flying only a bit behind the missiles but at a somehow higher altitude than the launched Delilah but it isn’t detected (as it should) by the same SA-10. -
Could you repro and record an ACMI as well as provide the used TE files?
cheers
Magic -
Hi Magic49th
You can download the TE scenario files here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bGGxZsVzxHkHhYR-uqMNajvohGV7KR5N/view?usp=sharingThis may look “stupid” (since I’ve been playing BMS and older versions for quite awhile) but how can I record an ACMI?
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@ricnunes Can be done 3 Ways:
- On Launcher Screen, highlight the ACMI box in the Command line area. This will begin recording automatically once in 3d.
- Click the AVTR switch twice on the left panel to activate. Next to the ECM panel stuff. The “Realism” way
- The old F4 stand by, click the “F” button.
Files are stored in you User\ACMI folder. View with TacView now, not the ACMI player in BMS.
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Please fly the same trajectory with your aircraft as tu and check if you are engaged by the sa10 (you should not or course , though the terrain has some « holes »)
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Thanks for the info and explanation, Quasi_Stellar
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@Mav-jp said in Delilah missile detected by SA-10 behind hills (makes Delilah useless):
Please fly the same trajectory with your aircraft as tu and check if you are engaged by the sa10 (you should not or course , though the terrain has some « holes »)
Yes, I did precisely that.
And I actually did that by flying at a even somehow higher altitude than what the Delilah missile would fly and I can confirm that I wasn’t detected and neither engaged.
The SA-10 would only detect my F-16 after passing those hills (unless flying too high, of course) while the Delilah missile would always be detected, engaged and destroyed well before passing those hills.At first glance, it almost looks like the Delilah missile has some sort of a “gigantic RCS” or something like that which is even bigger what any land feature such as hills that may it. Obviously I could be wrong thou.
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As requested, I send below an ACMI that I recorded which I believe shows very clearly the problem/issue:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11G57WBJargF_8-fT2X687Q-r2BvRXz2W/view?usp=sharingAs you can see by watching the ACMI in Tacview, I was flying at an altitude of 2,000 feet (MSL) and the Delilah missiles that I fired were configured to fly at the MSL altitude at the moment when launched from the aircraft, so this means that the first Delilah missile fired was also flying at an altitude of 2,000 feet (MSL).
By viewing both the ACMI and the screenshots that I’ll share below, you can see that the enemy SA-10 missiles fired at the first Delilah missile were fired in a position which would be impossible for any of the SA-10 radars to detect the incoming Delilah missile. Actually the SA-10 radars weren’t able to detect my F-16 which was flying in the same place/route and altitude as the Delilah missile (which again, can also be seen in the screenshots below).
Below you can see in the Delilah missile camera that the SA-10 missiles were fired against the Delilah when the site was completely behind and block by the hills:
Next, you can watch the Delilah missile exploding when hit/intercepted by a SA-10 missile. The location where the Delilah was intercepted was extremely close to my F-16 position and at the same altitude and yet, you can see (watch the RWR) that the SA-10 wasn’t able to detect me:
And then, after passing the point where the Delilah missile was shot down and still at the same altitude, I still wasn’t detected by any SA-10 radars:
Finally, when watching the ACMI file, you can watch another interesting event after firing the second Delilah missile. This missile ended up crashing against a hill which should be blocking the missile from the SA-10 but even thou the SA-10 somehow managed to detect the incoming second Delilah missile just before crashing into the hill (and fired SA-10 missiles at it).
I hope this helps somehow!
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I think you need to switch tactics … try this
- Use terrain masking to get inside 10 miles
- Pop up and launch
- Use terrain masking after launch, get back down into the weeds as fast as you can.
- Use terrain masking to make your escape out of range of the SAM.
It’s not easy but it is doable - to be fair its easier in other theatres as Israel is pretty flat ;0)
Ironman
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hello , instead of using the tv I 'm using the rampage missiles following the technique of Ironman53rd .
Fly low and use the ground to hide, search for your target, launch and make a hasty escape
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@Ironman53rd and @AlehandroGTI
Please note that I don’t have much of a problem “killing” a SA-10 site with other weapons and tactics.
For example, I can use pop-up tactics successfully like you (Ironman53rd) said and for example the SDB is a great weapon for this.
Or for example like AlehandroGTI said, the Rampage missile is also a great weapon for this effect specially if we already know beforehand the exact coordinates or location of the SA-10 radars.
So yes, either by using the SDB or Rampage (or both) I can inflict severe damage to a SA-10 site and knock out its radars and basically everything else.However, please note that this is not the purpose of this thread. This thread is basically to report a bug where the Delilah missile can be (easily) detected by the SA-10 radars (I imagine that this might also be the case with other Air Defence systems) when it shouldn’t because the Delilah missile is flying on the other side of a mountain/hill.
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@ricnunes
I totally see what you mean in your ACMI. I will bring this up internally.cheers
Magic -
@AlehandroGTI life won’t be so good if the SA-10 fires at the Rampages… or can’t it?
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Thanks Magic49th