TWS vs. RWS
-
Good Day, All. We have been doing missile testing lately, and I’ve noticed something I’d like to get the Group’s views on.
Scenario- Nevada TE with F-18E vs. 2 IL-76 and 2 Mig-29 escorts. For purposes of the testing, using labels. I remain hot throughout the shooting
First Pass- Using TWS- lock, shoot, TMS right to switch tgt., repeat x3. I would get a varying number of “Missile-Lost” indications and the missile(s) just fly past the tgts. However, if I hold fire until I get closer and the missiles can go Pitbull quickly, no “Missile-Losts”
Second Pass-Using RWS- same or similar launch parameters-lock, shoot, wait for Pitbull, switch tgt and repeat. I didn’t get a single “Missile-Lost”So, my questions are 1) Is this normal TWS vs RWS behavior? Keep in mind that the tgts are doing the normal AI things( going cold, etc.)
2) If this is not normal behavior, then are people seeing it in KTO? We are about to test that ourselves, as well.
3) Is there something I can do to “help” the radar in TWS maintain lock?
4) Are there any known datalink issues that may contribute? -
A few months ago I see same bug. I practiced shooting at multiple targets in tws (2 or 3 targets at a time) and when it appears in tws there is no data link connection with the missile and the plane, so it does not update the interception course, It’s just my opinion of what can happen.
in rws I don’t know if the same problem exists
-
@Leandro This in KTO
-
@drtbkj there have been long, controversial threads on all this for the past year or so… (def review all that before reopening the can of worms.)
tl/dr is use STT mode (hard lock) when launching a rare, million-dollar magic spear.
the idea of firing at 6x targets in TWS mode, was apparently propaganda or marketing bs.
longer explanation – when you fox-3-long launch AIM-120 (C or earlier) it’s guiding inertially and responding to radio-command updates… once every 6 seconds or so in RWS/TWS modes. there is a pretty huge cone of error for this phase, even for a non-maneuvering target… and by the time missile goes pitbull the target may be outside the seeker cone… or missile may find itself in a relative position where it’s unable to maneuver to intercept.
no explanation other than random chance, for why RWS would be better than TWS… it should be slightly worse.
you’ll probably have to do 20 reps of each in a controlled scenario, before forming any statistical conclusions. (and you probably want to wait for U3 before doing that … because maybe there are relevant code changes?)
-
@drtbkj Greetings Airwolf
check OFM mail inbox sent you multiple new .dat files! -
@drtbkj
i was experiencing the same issue!
how ever i solved it
this missile Lost issue can happen for two reasons
1st: because of the high active pitbull distance in the missile .dat files
2nd: there is a nasty bug with the editor at sensors tab so if you do copy using Add radar data copy of the aircraft’s radar that you experience the missile lost issue with and change aircraft radar to new one you just copied it gets solved! -
Thx for the replies.
Airtex, I . too was wondering about STT. For the sake of this “ripple fire” test I just didn’t use it.
Farazparsa, on my way to get the files! -
@airtex2019 said in TWS vs. RWS:
no explanation other than random chance, for why RWS would be better than TWS… it should be slightly worse
RWS SAM should be superior to TWS
-
@drtbkj - No. Based on what I know of the missile (and RWS) this is totally gooned. You should only be able to take multiple shots from TWS.
-
@Stevie said in TWS vs. RWS:
@drtbkj - No. Based on what I know of the missile (and RWS) this is totally gooned. You should only be able to take multiple shots from TWS.
Nope, you can shoot two in DT SAM (RWS submode).
-
You can take two shots in TTS/DTT (DTT being TTS without search) or up to four shots in MTS for those radars that can do that.
For BMS 3+ targets is where TWS becomes a strict requirement.
-
@DUSTOFF17 - maybe in BMS, but I’m not sure I believe this in RL.
-
@Stevie check -34
-
-
@tiag - I’d rather check a RL F-16 TACMAN, but we ain’t got that…
…however, in RL I have to keep track of at least four variant of RL airborne radars, and I do tend to mix them up. When I do I go back to basics…especially differences in lingo between them. Stimson’s “Introduction to Airborne Radar” is one of my basic references. Plus a lecture series from MIT I stumbled on a year ago.
I’ve studied and concluded this implementation under/within RWS isn’t out of the question, but personally I’d never shoot an AIM-120 this way…unless I got surprised, and in that case it would be a single shot, and I’d transition into an ACM mode - or TWS - for the next one. If I had a 120 under trigger I’d start and shoot in TWS.
-
-
Long story short, what is the recommended way (in BMS) to shoot at two targets, while still out of pitbull range?
-
@Logic
Two targets: RWS DT SAM mode.