Cockpit ergonomics check
-
Not really sure if I’m using the correct title/words, but basically, I am building a cockpit using Thunder’s plans but I am using a Next Level Racing chair for now instead of an ACES seat and because of this, positioning the seat is tricky. If anyone has a replica pit or has sat in a real F-16 cockpit, please help me out with a few points:
-
Is the top of the ICP level with the pilot’s chin or top of shoulders? I’m not building the HUD so can’t use that as reference If not either chin or shoulders, what does it align to?
-
Is the pilot’s left forearm horizontal when his hand is on the throttle grip and the throttle arm is vertical?
-
Does the pilot have to reach forward or lift his back off the backrest or at least the shoulders off the backrest when reaching for the MFD buttons? Or should it be within reach even with his back in full contact with the backrest?
Basically, what I’m trying to get at here is the correct vertical (up/down) and horizontal (fore/aft) position of my seat so that I am at the correct position similar to an F-16 pilot. I have my chair and backrest at the correct angles as shown in the a133628 document (seat top at 30degrees, backrest at 60degrees) so I’m just looking at getting the proper position.
Unfortunately, I’m not building a canopy either so the “fist above head” parameter does not do me any good. I have looked at pictures online but they can seem to vary by a bit and I am not sure if this variation is in fact normal or whether it is just a result of perspective and camera position/elevation.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
-
-
@Atlas are you the Mountain or Tyrion Lannister?
-
@spotdott I am at some point along that spectrum
-
@Atlas On the risk of being accused of shameless self-promotion(the hell with it ) I could point you to my insta page.
There is some recent video where you can see me sitting in my replica pit to get an idea about how thing relate to each other.
If you send me a message there I can make a photo and send it.
You do know that seat, arm and wrist rest are all adjustable according to pilot size?
For reference in the video; I am 183m
Insta: ralph_f16simulator -
Hi Ralph, yes, I am aware that these are adjustable, however, they are adjustable so that the pilot is in the correct position or as near to the design eye as possible regardless of pilot size/height. Thanks for the link to your Insta, impressive cockpit!
I’ve watched some of your videos and again, come across the same issue – I can’t really tell for sure if what I’m seeing is correct or is not correct due to the camera FOV and perspective. If you can give me a response to the questions posted above (especially the third point), that would be great!
If you could also tell me more about that keyboard/kneepad you have, that would be awesome!
@RalphROV said in Cockpit ergonomics check:
If you send me a message there I can make a photo and send it.
A video of you getting in/out of the cockpit would be great! I’m not sure how exactly do work with this once I assemble the whole thing so getting an idea of this would be great as well!
-
@Atlas
For the kneeboard I use a real MXU-163C, I replaced the incandescent lightbulbs inside with leds.
The way I see it (just my opinion perhaps), but I go by the rule that pilots eyeball needs to be in the same horizontal centre as the HUD. With that arm/wrist support can be adjusted as well as the pedals.
Since I am 99% of the time the user of the pit, the pedals have a fixed position in my pit.
To answer your third point: Everything on the main I can reach without even to full extent my arm, I am a 1.84m person.
The pilot never sits all the way back with his helmet against the headrest, unless in high-G or upon ejection.
The human body has this natural tendency to arch a little, as you perhaps know the position is extremely comfy.If you would sit in a reclined office chair and reach out without fully stretch your arm that would almost be exactly as the pit is.
If I remember (or if you remind on my insta) I will ask someone to shoot some images while im seated in the pit.
hope this is helpful for you
keypad is a RII mini with a usb dongle velcroed on top knee thing
Example:
https://www.electrofun.pt/teclados/teclado-rii-mini-x1-2-4g-wireless-rato-touchpad?utm_campaign=efshopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpcelaborating a little to help;
Picture your eyes right through the centre of the HUD glass and then imagine the ICP directly under it.
So the ICP aligns sort of with your mouth/chin, so higher then shoulder.
My left throttle arm isn’t horizontal, far from actually.
Pilots come in different sizes so a rule to have a horizontal fore arm is not even a thing. -
@RalphROV thanks for your input! Thanks for the link to that touchpad too, I thought it came with the kneeboard!
I did get confirmation from another simmer that he can also reach the upper/outmost MFD button without lifting his back off the backrest but then I realise that the ACES II backrest is a bit curved so I wonder if the shoulders are supported more forward whereas my seat’s backrest is flat. I can reach the upper/outmost MFD button by raising my shoulders maybe an inch or so off the backrest.
Another issue with my seat is that the leg supports are much longer than that of ACES, so the foam is now pressing against the FUEL panel. Definitely more work needed there, but I guess I’ll see if it interferes first or if I can just live with it.
-
@Atlas
There some excellent cockpit plans that are available for builders on viperpits.org , even it it where to draw just some measurements from it for your setup.
That you have to lean a little to reach mfd functions isn’t a real issue imho, sometimes my left hand goes to the right mfd if the steering requires constant input, and then I lean perhaps.
The left hand does more, like operating the ICP and left consoles, the pit is designed to give the right hand less workload during flight.
The right consoles are often referred as ‘set and forget’The seats centre line is less curved than you would expect, the curves increase more to the sides.
As said before my shoulder blades hardly touch the backrest.
I don’t what your rig looks like, but if you are in the beginning stage I would buy one of those gaming office chairs and remove the wheeled leg and fix it inclined on a mfd type of support frame. -
@RalphROV As mentioned in the first post here, I’m building my cockpit using Thunder’s plans. However, as I’m not using an ACES seat, I need to be a bit more creative to ensure I am still positioned correctly inside the cockpit in relation to where everything else is. If you look at my previous post, I linked the setup from where I’m getting my seat from.
I am close to the “correct position” now, if I just adjust the backrest a little bit, it should be perfect. Thanks so much for your input!
New question though — is the LG lever parallel to the centreline of the aircraft or is it pointing towards the pilot, ie, perpendicular to the LG panel surface?