F-14D Cockpit
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Please don’t turn this beautiful mod discussion into an F-14 vs XX or F-14 isn’t a dogfighter. I will never try to argue this beyond the man in the cockpit, but what folks don’t realise is that the NATOPS section covering flight performance for any variant of the F-14 is still classified-NOT TALKING ABOUT THE GENERAL F-14 NATOPS here. It doesn’t hold some dark secret that says the F-14 travels at MACH 5 and can sustain 15g turns, but it does include enough to silence anyone who hasn’t read it. Take that for what its worth. If you haven’t seen it, don’t comment on it. If you have seen it, don’t reveal its contents. It always makes me wonder how we will ever hope to have an accurate F-14 sim when the E-M diagrams remain classified.
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I just realized this - as I piloted Flogger very often in various F4 versions in the past, the AC performed quite different according to “manual flaps” enabled/disabled.
For example I was able to hold on dogfight in FF series due to manual flaps against AI F-14 (with F-14 vs AI Mig-23 it was much easier of course). But in F4AF I had problems. AI Tomcat out turned me very often. The flaps setting was the same as in F-16 - automatic (manual flaps disabled). Then I discovered edge flaps override function for F-16 and made a shortcut for it. Since that time I was rather on pair with AI Tomcat when dogfighting at low speed in Flogger(but it was not easy).
So the instant solution for current situation would be this override function activated. I would try it by myself, but i am in hurry ATM.I can remember some pilots turned better than me at Hyperlobby. It was really different. I dont speak about overall better flying, but significant different performance during high G turn (same speed). I started research. I found some other button first (FBW computer restriction switch - it is usefull during spin recovery), but the effect was still too weak. Then I found this “edge flaps override” or something. It made angular fight better, but AC bleeded energy faster of course. I watched dogfight league discussion or something similar later - some pilots argued it is cheat, pilot would not use it in RL due to the airframe damage risk. So I did not use it on Hyperloby, if not consulted with oponent.
But it would be usefull on final with Tomcat I think (right now, no tweaks).BTW I am not against discussion about FM tweaks (ACs, weaponary…), but allways with 3D testing. It is rather an art in my opinion. F4 engine was developed since early-mid 90ths. It is not just about filling right values (T/W, masses, burntimes, drag…). The physical engine of 486-age must be a compromisse. It is not super computer cluster software for molecular dynamics computation. So I am for tweaks + heavy 3D testing / oficial data comparison + real pilot subjective opinion at the end.
BTW2 - for me the biggest problem is not 3-7,5% different performance of the aircraft, but AI behavior.
If the plane is pure energy fighter, It should fly/try energy fight. If it has great nose pointing performance, it should make clever timed strong turns. If it is low level strike fighter bomber, it should fly low and supersonic… (so it is not just about FM tweaks necessarily).
A.S. once mentioned his B-1 AI tweak - this is the near future, a lot of space for overall tweaks IMHO. -
I think F14 FM does not allow manual flaps in BMS 4.32. It still flies very good and comfortable, but the stall speed is a little bit higher as u wrote. It would be perhaps nice to allow manual flaps feature in the next update (would it help without FM edit?). I was able to land really slowly in F4AF on carrier IIRC.
BTW AI controled F15 (ACE) flies sluggish, slowly and on minimal almost all the time in BMS 4.32. It is easy to achive gun-kill ten times in a row (I did it few minutes ago using just laptop keyboard). I flied F-14 and Mig-23 with the same result (Mig-23 is less manoeuvrable, but has manually controled flaps)…
AI oponent tends to crash into the ground even over very flat terrain (so I set 5k feet modified TopGun rule for myself). It is like in OF…I look forward to fly in your F-14 pit one day mykinge :headb::headb::headb:
I agree on the flaps issue, but even without manual flaps, a loaded Cat should be able the approach the deck at 130-135kts. With the flaps i think the standard landing speed was 125kts or so.
As for the AI flying the F-15 in a sluggish way, true….and i have seen it when the AI flies the Flankers too. IMO the AI “overturns” with the Eagle and bleeds the airspeed way too fast, leaving it dead in the “water”. I guess a similar case to what an inexperienced pilot would do. Molni had an idea, of actually limiting the F-15 AoA when AI driven, to prevent this from happening and i think it might actually work in some instances.
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I agree on the flaps issue, but even without manual flaps, a loaded Cat should be able the approach the deck at 130-135kts. With the flaps i think the standard landing speed was 125kts or so.
As for the AI flying the F-15 in a sluggish way, true….and i have seen it when the AI flies the Flankers too. IMO the AI “overturns” with the Eagle and bleeds the airspeed way too fast, leaving it dead in the “water”. I guess a similar case to what an inexperienced pilot would do. Molni had an idea, of actually limiting the F-15 AoA when AI driven, to prevent this from happening and i think it might actually work in some instances.
at what gross weight?
afaik there are restrictions on landing weights of these birds in real life where in falcon we can come and go as we please with a full munition load and what not, which most of the times mean relatively heavier jets compared to RL.
i am not saying the slow speed characteristics of the FM is spot on for the Tomcat in falcon, however the gross weight has to be considered when making comparison to real life in this case.
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at what gross weight?
afaik there are restrictions on landing weights of these birds in real life where in falcon we can come and go as we please with a full munition load and what not, which most of the times mean relatively heavier jets compared to RL.
i am not saying the slow speed characteristics of the FM is spot on for the Tomcat in falcon, however the gross weight has to be considered when making comparison to real life in this case.
IIRC, 137kts at max trap weight, which should be 54000lbs at a 3.5 degree glide slope. That should allow for about 10000lbs of stores/fuel…
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One ontopic issue. Have anybody ever noticed that in BMS4 Tomcats are in slow constant bank regardless of 100% symmetrical loadout? What can cause this bug?
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I’ve noticed too…always needs trim after take off…I think there is no particular reason, seems like a bug to me.
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One ontopic issue. Have anybody ever noticed that in BMS4 Tomcats are in slow constant bank regardless of 100% symmetrical loadout? What can cause this bug?
I tested this as soon as BMS 4 was released. It’s related to how the Phoenix pallets are loaded on the centerline. If you jettison them you’ll fly straight and level. That’s why it doesn’t affect you in a guns only dogfight. Someone way smarter than me needs to get those pylons centered correctly-as well as fix the alignment of the AIM-7s and AIM-54s .
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After I have launched all the effect won’t disappear. -> If missile weight is the problem after you have used all, the rack remains in the same positon keeping the unbalanced state, just their weights are smaller.
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Has anyone tried flying in clean configuration?
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After I have launched all the effect won’t disappear. -> If missile weight is the problem after you have used all, the rack remains in the same positon keeping the unbalanced state, just their weights are smaller.
Reread what I posted-it’s not related to weapons but the PALLETS (the name for the AIM-54 and bomb “pylons”) You must jettison the pallets to fly straight and level.
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Has anyone tried flying in clean configuration?
Yes in a clean configuration the aircraft flys staright and level.
I finally found it and had it verified in post 14 of the above topic.
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Has anyone tried flying in clean configuration?
Excellent speed and acceleration but lack of agile.Turns nimble for it’s size but still no able to out-turn even F-16I with CFT .
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thanks!
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I don’t know, the F-14B has incredible thrust and ridiculous low speed handling. Since BMS doesn’t model over-g in the F-14……
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I don’t know, the F-14B has incredible thrust and ridiculous low speed handling. Since BMS doesn’t model over-g in the F-14……
Incredible? Comparing what? Because F-14 empty weight is also incredible comparing with F-15 and F-18…
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Comparing F-16 vs F-14 duel. Show me an acmi where you did not struggle to best an ace F-14 in your F-16.
F-16 vs F-15? easy.
vs F-18? easy.
vs F-14? struggle struggle.Why? As I stated earlier, Over-G isn’t modelled in BMS for the tomcat. Maintaining 9G turns is possible when in reality, the plane is supposed to disintegrate >6.8-7.2G.
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When discuess about T/W ratio,we can never forgot the lift and drag,that’s why Panther no able to match the BBC МиГ-15 with the same engine and identical T/W ratio and how Tomcat out acclerate many newer fighter jet with higher T/W ratio.
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You mean its variable geometry gives it an advantage? The MiG-23 is also quite hard to shake if you let it get behind you.
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VG wing,variable intake and lifting body design.
In the case of МиГ-23,it may easy to catch up with you as you at the control on a Eagle or Falcon.But,in the other hand however,with it’s ‘’‘excellent’‘’ maneuverability and agile,that’s really a easy prey as you can force the Flogger to do a series of turn with you.:-D