Suggestion for database, data supply
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So we’ll have to rewrite the coefficients for all missiles anyway
This is what is impossible, because lack of data. Even if you have exact data for one missile from a “class” I do not have better idea than apply for other missiles in the same “class”.
Regardless of exact data important upgrades can be done of many AA missiles and SAMs. Current modeling values are so inaccrate with DB that BASIC features of missiles are not modeled for many “firs line” items… I think here about dual thrust for AIM-7F/M, well set max. gimbal values, etc.
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This is what is impossible, because lack of data. Even if you have exact data for one missile from a “class” I do not have better idea than apply for other missiles in the same “class”.
Regardless of exact data important upgrades can be done of many AA missiles and SAMs. Current modeling values are so inaccrate with DB that BASIC features of missiles are not modeled for many “firs line” items… I think here about dual thrust for AIM-7F/M, well set max. gimbal values, etc.
There are several specialized software for calculating the coefficients based on the geometric shape of missiles.
On the limitations of modeling in BMS I know enough, you can gradually converge to the fact that there really is. You can do nothing, but who need this “simulator”? Those who have no idea how things really are? BMS developers have a lot of work ahead if they want to make a good simulator -
For high AoA range…? What about max AoA of missiles? What about CL max? These are the key factors for max. G and kinematic defeat.
About racks and wepons stores. Regardless of available theoretical weapon config I cannot aviod to recoomend restricted confight because of ATO + campaigns. HP confighs in DB are partially subjective this is unavoidable.
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I think re-doing the complete database is a tremendous worklaod, not to forget things have to be approved and justified.
Generally possible, yes, but practical? I dont know, maybe one step at a time within the evolution of BMS.
There is no point to have various data-base versions floating around if it is not implemented as established official realease within BMS itself.A smarter solution would be to improve the database theater-specific, meaning only the units, objectives etc etc…used in the theater released (i.e Redflag).
If other units or similar to be added later, database-work can be a nice extension of a campaign-built.
But again, it is very important not to violate the official version is certain areas as this would create a total new environment from the trainings-environment (i.e Missile perfomances).But i do agree, in order to utilize certain things at its best…things need(ed) to be improved.
Best thing to do is - as this thread says - suggest ideas… introduce solutions …and hope the DEV-team takes good ideas into consideration.
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For high AoA range…? What about max AoA of missiles? What about CL max? These are the key factors for max. G and kinematic defeat.
do not understand the question.
What’s the difference for which band? Programs run by analogy with blowing in the wind tunnel.
@molnibalage:What about max AoA of missiles? What about CL max?
this depends on the structural and aerodynamic configuration of the missile, and not on the year of production and country of origin
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Generally possible, yes, but practical?
1000% worth.
A smarter solution would be to improve the database theater-specific, meaning only the units, objectives etc etc…used in the theater released (i.e Redflag).
I have asked this. Does the core DB take care all sensor and 3D model + other upgrades…? If code will be changed how follow 3rd party theater the changes…? What is the point of view of BMS4 Team?
If anyone suggest the independent 3rd party DB without allowing the separated dat files as DB this is impossible to make a decent theater. I do not understand why exe does not support such a minor but likely the most important feature for 3rd party theater upgrade. If you wish to more detailed modeling, you need new DB entires, which requires new dat files, which require different lst files. —> As long as speatated \sim directories are not supported for each theater you have to swap \sim directory…
Do you want exact examples?
MiG-23MF, ML MLD, MiG-21PF, MF, bis requires separated DB entries for more accurate modeling as well as many other types. You can “sacrifice” some AC type for others. For ex. there are many F-111 varianst - why…? - but there is only one MiG-21. Where is the logic in DB? I cannot see any…
I do not undertsand why is so neglected the DB and dat files by the Team. Yes, exe is wonderful but DB is so outdated that prevents to grow up Falcon 4. Perfect example of one of PvP theter where AIM-9P had to be used to create a dogfight theater and many other “trick”. This clearly shows what the problems are…
The thread started one year ago, even the smallest tweaks have not been applied. I’m sad. Very sad.
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@OSD:
do not understand the question.
What’s the difference for which band? Programs run by analogy with blowing in the wind tunnel.this depends on the structural and aerodynamic configuration of the missile, and not on the year of production and country of origin
Where you can download any app? This means fine element modeling for 0 speed to supersonic range.
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Because its alot of work … we suggest…devs take things into the database… question is, do they have a database-guy?
I personally just overworked and checked all units used in RF…even that showed, that the DB is REALLY old and not efficient made at ALL on many levels.
Just the thought of explaining all that what i did is scary, as it was extensive investigation and work. No way i can put that in few lines.
So how we cooperated and improve element by element in the official version?We suggest, they consider and implementation …or we create our own 3rd theaters with detailed changelogs and reasoning …or both?
Demer - i believe - wanted to create a totally blank data-base template for modders. I dont know if that ever was released though.
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Because its alot of work … we suggest…devs take things into the database…
Doing the edits require only some hours if you know what is the goal. If you have importer tool much less if anyone have intention to use F4B export feature.
Rewriting some role scores and doing HP, sq. size changes requires only some hours if you have the list. I can suggest or upload anything, but I cannot feel that any will ever applied…
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Where you can download any app? This means fine element modeling for 0 speed to supersonic range.
for example FlowVision
also can be useful prodas 2000
and so on. -
How many simulation hours are required for one missile?
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About racks and wepons stores. Regardless of available theoretical weapon config I cannot aviod to recoomend restricted confight because of ATO + campaigns. HP confighs in DB are partially subjective this is unavoidable.
I don’t get what you mean exactly… how is ATO involved with what can be loaded on a given rack?
And if you are worried about ATO then the problem is somewhere else and not with racks config etc… if we want to ever anything with DB changes we should start sorting and fixing, and better do the easy stuff first (and IMHO HPs config is one of the simple things, what weapon and how many can go on what station, that should be straight forward change, regardless if ATO is stupid, for example).
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How many simulation hours are required for one missile?
Not much.
Get 6-8 Mach number points.
And 8-10 AOA points,between them approximation, will be enough. -
This means 6x8 or 8x10 point, because Mach AND AoA have to be combinated. Do we have exact data about shape of rockets?
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because Mach AND AoA have to be combinated
Really?
@molnibalage:Do we have exact data about shape of rockets?
You do not know where to get the drawings ore finished 3-D models? I can not help
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If you wish to modell well the coefficient you need very exact data about dimensions, which are not available from dimensionless blueprints. Small chamfers, edges are counted for CL and CD….
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So, can you show just a quick demo (speed M2.0 AoA 2 deg) with mentioned sofwared to see how close is the result for current values in DB?
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If you wish to modell well the coefficient you need very exact data about dimensions, which are not available from dimensionless blueprints. Small chamfers, edges are counted for CL and CD….
You opened my eyes
I knew it even before the debate began.
@molnibalage:So, can you show just a quick demo (speed M2.0 AoA 2 deg) with mentioned sofwared to see how close is the result for current values in DB?
No time for it
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@OSD & SpbGoro
Does this table contains data which concerning on burn time and help calculate the total impulse?
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