New Texture Balkans
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I too, hehe
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great job rudy, I wayt to download it, you are terrain’s man good luck, it is a pleasure to look what did you mean, best regards
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great job rudy, I wayt to download it, you are terrain’s man good luck, it is a pleasure to look what did you mean, best regards
Very soon the download is still work to do…
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Those farm textures are pretty good as far as they are pass the test of not showing ugly repeatitiveness of any pattern or particular color patch in them. That is how IMHO each texture should be evaluated. If they pass that test they should be considered as worthy further work and development.
Unfortunately, such a texture material, when served in excessive quantityand area, tends to be suffering from effect of “sameness” . This is where terrain editing and not only tile painting should enter and correct this issue. That is what , as you know, I am talking about from some time. Criss crossing roads and rivers help only a little to remove this effect perhaps because they are made on the same background (or perhaps not ).
It is really pretty difficult and hard to control issue and perhaps those who are not familiar with tile painting trade may not fully feel, appreciate, or understand. And yet quite a lot serious, if not scientific, study has been commissioned, sponsored and spent by Microsoft/others to study this phenomena with some interesting conclusions, but IMHO not clear and effective ways to remedy problems.
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Those farm textures are pretty good as far as they are pass the test of not showing ugly repeatitiveness of any pattern or particular color patch in them. That is how IMHO each texture should be evaluated. If they pass that test they should be considered as worthy further work and development.
Unfortunately, such a texture material, when served in excessive quantityand area, tends to be suffering from effect of “sameness” . This is where terrain editing and not only tile painting should enter and correct this issue. That is what , as you know, I am talking about from some time. Criss crossing roads and rivers help only a little to remove this effect perhaps because they are made on the same background (or perhaps not ).
It is really pretty difficult and hard to control issue and perhaps those who are not familiar with tile painting trade may not fully feel, appreciate, or understand. And yet quite a lot serious, if not scientific, study has been commissioned, sponsored and spent by Microsoft/others to study this phenomena with some interesting conclusions, but IMHO not clear and effective ways to remedy problems.
Good observation Polak,
we are putting in place a new technique for the farm, and roads, rivers with the super variations i hope to be able to see the result very soon. -
Yes, putting 16 or more PR textures in the row with the road or river is possible and in a way could be called new “supervariation” technique. Looking forward to your results :headb:.
However, bear also in mind, that PR despite its power and appeal is not the only answer to everything. To contrary, if used in limited number (because of some code texture limitation) only amplifies the difference between PR and traditionally tiled part.
Moreover, even 100% PR theaters like Guam do not seem to be what this community is looking for, or expecting. Maybe there are other factors in play, I am not sure.
What I am sure of is, that a lots of time goes to make tiles and final result of the theater may depend on keeping very careful balance between PR and regular tiling (all in good coordination with heightmap), keeping out of clashing colors, tone and contrasting transitions in very tight and carefull selection and choice.
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Yes, putting 16 or more PR textures in the row with the road or river is possible and in a way could be called new “supervariation” technique. Looking forward to your results :headb:.
However, bear also in mind, that PR despite its power and appeal is not the only answer to everything. To contrary, if used in limited number (because of some code texture limitation) only amplifies the difference between PR and traditionally tiled part.
Moreover, even 100% PR theaters like Guam do not seem to be what this community is looking for, or expecting. Maybe there are other factors in play, I am not sure.
What I am sure of is, that a lots of time goes to make tiles and final result of the theater may depend on keeping very careful balance between PR and regular tiling (all in good coordination with heightmap), keeping out of clashing colors, tone and contrasting transitions in very tight and carefull selection and choice.
I will do my best
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Yes, putting 16 or more PR textures in the row with the road or river is possible and in a way could be called new “supervariation” technique. Looking forward to your results :headb:.
However, bear also in mind, that PR despite its power and appeal is not the only answer to everything. To contrary, if used in limited number (because of some code texture limitation) only amplifies the difference between PR and traditionally tiled part.
Moreover, even 100% PR theaters like Guam do not seem to be what this community is looking for, or expecting. Maybe there are other factors in play, I am not sure.
What I am sure of is, that a lots of time goes to make tiles and final result of the theater may depend on keeping very careful balance between PR and regular tiling (all in good coordination with heightmap), keeping out of clashing colors, tone and contrasting transitions in very tight and carefull selection and choice.
You are right, im bit sad that bms terraing graphics are going to satelite/photo textures way, its wrong style for combatflight sim where you have to spot small targets on ground. Even best photo or satelite textures are just pixel mess in low alt.
I don’t wanna more flat fake buildings (a’l’a dcs’s) or fake forest. Rise of flight style graphics should be best choice, 3d forests so no need for forest texture etc… -
@FF
I will do my best
You are clearly doing that. My comments are not to impose anything on you, just friendly advise from someone who spent far too much time on the subject of Falcon tiled terrain and could do nothing, but just ponder why tiles in F4 are such a beast to work with.
im bit sad that bms terraing graphics are going to satelite/photo textures way, its wrong style for combatflight sim where you have to spot small targets on ground
It is a problem. It looks like we cannot have a ultra realistic both. For now then we are trying to come with better terrain at longer visual ranges. Tiles, repetitiveness, PR/tile contrasts, etc. all are not helping.
I am hoping for BMS to implement kneemap, maybe some new terrain features (trees , etc) and then gradually try to come up with some better representation of terrain at close quarters. It is very tall order and goal, so perhaps expectations should not be outgrowing our current means and abilities. -
Also important to keep an eye on playability. Sims like IL-2 or Rise Of Flight do not have to calculate as much as Falcon and can afford a more detailed scenario (especially Rise of Flight or Cliffs of Dover).
Even the original Falcon 4.0 was a system hog.
DCS also makes good terrain, but consumes many ressources. So far BMS is somehow modest in ressource demands. -
Sims like IL-2 or Rise Of Flight do not have to calculate as much as Falcon and can afford a more detailed scenario (especially Rise of Flight or Cliffs of Dover).
Can anything be compared to Falcon4 as far as what is going on in the program behind the scene? And this IS that very MAGIC of it and thats simply all it is to that.
@Tom
U right about importance of the playability.
This should be goal of the terrain making too. Terrain should complement the combat action and preferably not distract from it by offering nothing but just fake and technically impossible to achieve illusion of detailed life under. It is a fact, that ATM we are making just attempts and tests wether such an illusion is possible and appears to me personally that it is not.Therefore, our energy and creativity should be directed to something which would support current state of Falcon development and its playability= fun using it. Running development of the terrain into something, which is without practical use for maintaining playability is IMHO rather missed cause and perhaps should be avoided.
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Yes, putting 16 or more PR textures in the row with the road or river is possible and in a way could be called new “supervariation” technique. Looking forward to your results :headb:.
However, bear also in mind, that PR despite its power and appeal is not the only answer to everything. To contrary, if used in limited number (because of some code texture limitation) only amplifies the difference between PR and traditionally tiled part.
Moreover, even 100% PR theaters like Guam do not seem to be what this community is looking for, or expecting. Maybe there are other factors in play, I am not sure.
What I am sure of is, that a lots of time goes to make tiles and final result of the theater may depend on keeping very careful balance between PR and regular tiling (all in good coordination with heightmap), keeping out of clashing colors, tone and contrasting transitions in very tight and carefull selection and choice.
I beg to differ there, my friend…the “Artiste”…;)
Every week since the re-tile of GUAM has started, and remember I was annoyed by the “scaling” of the tile in Falcon 3D… ;( NOT our ALPHA work.
I have been digging into the NVid .dds SDK to find suitable solutions to some of our texture woes in Falcon.
As well, re-mapping the MAP wire frame to a resolution more friendly to the L2 has helped.
I am going to post some pics to help explain what I’ve took the time to “Learn” in the past 5 weeks or so:First, you may see your Seatiles in a totally different perspective now.
Second and again what we see OTW due to the F16 model is HDR Blurred around it for an immense area……;(
BUT the tiles just outside of that Model’s…AHemmm “Booble” are sharp as a tack. Think we went a little extreme there Gent’s…LOL!!!Here is a view from the pit, and in this we can see that the tiles are blurred under the models foot print, but no longer pixelated. And that those ahead are rendering nicely @ 500 feet or so
As far as GUAM having no or little appeal to the Falcon community, I think 1000+ DLd’s with only 2 CTD’s would argue that point……;)!!!
Sorry M8’s…:tjacked:
Back to Topic… -
Well I think what we are getting to now, with Rudy and the teams work in Balkans, Joe’s work in Spain, and Daves work in Guam, is probably a quantum leap in realism and quality of the terrain from what we are used to. IMHO, its starting to look as good from altitude as FSX , which is saying something (although with FSX we have the lovely 5m mesh….) Sure, we are still working within limitations of the old engine and code, and the fact that its a tiled system, but look seriously how much all those guys mentioned above have learned and progressed in the last few months. It really is one of those “great leaps forward” that you get in technology etc in real life. Now, if there was some way of bringing everyone together and sharing and disseminating this new knowledge down to a slightly bigger team, we could have korea re done in months…It really is exciting stuff and I truly hope that this will spur people on to get together (BMS team included) and really make sure this gets integrated properly into the sim.
Bravo to all you guys and thanks!
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Yes all looks very impressive indeed !!!
Expectedly it looks like my comments have been met with strong opposing view. That is fine and this is why we have this forum. However, despite what has been said and shown in the form of the screenshots, I frankly find this discussion little low on substance and skimpy of NEW! practical information anyone else can use. Noneless the results shown on those few screenshots, I repeat, are impressive no question asked.
I tend, however, to agree with Mark about lack of of true cooperation to develop efficiently new theaters not because we do not want, but because we all now are discussing and dealing with ONE only facet of terrain_making and theater_making, which are PR visuals. I do not need to tell, or remind, that there are many more of aspects requiring time and hard work and dedication to make new theater trully 100% working and sucessfull with true and loyal follow up. I have had a honor and pleasure to meet dedicated people and hard working teams (here and @ FF) acting in unison on one common and realistically established goal.
Do not mind me this …. I am old grumpy fellow and this post is too short to tell it all and I am too lazy. :uham:
Good luck to us all and perhaps we need more time to see where we can get Falcon BMS terrain and theater making from here.
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Do not mind me this …. I am old grumpy fellow and this post is too short to tell it all and I am too lazy. :uham:
Good luck to us all and perhaps we need more time to see where we can get Falcon BMS terrain and theater making from here.
X2……:D!!!
Dave
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Hey, I’m lazy and also a little grumpy (that’s a franconians nature anyway)
… so x4.
Cheers,
LS