How to induce Deep Stall
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I ran the Deep stall Recovery TE with script on, but my a/c didn’t enter deep stall. How can I induce deep stall so I can practice recovery?
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try to fly HARTS properly. chances are good youll muff it up the first time, which means you will likely enter a deep stall.
alternatively, just get the jet in a low airspeed region, and give it positive pitch momentum up towards 60 degrees angle of attack. try to get the nose moving up at the same time that the FLCS would want to pull the nose down… feel free to add a sharp roll to it. some people advocate adding rudder into the mix, which you can if you like. shouldnt make any difference though.
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try to fly HARTS properly. chances are good youll muff it up the first time, which means you will likely enter a deep stall.
alternatively, just get the jet in a low airspeed region, and give it positive pitch momentum up towards 60 degrees angle of attack. try to get the nose moving up at the same time that the FLCS would want to pull the nose down… feel free to add a sharp roll to it. some people advocate adding rudder into the mix, which you can if you like. shouldnt make any difference though.
Sorry foe another noob question, what is HARTS?
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okay, in your falcon install is a folder called Docs. open it.
inside that folder, open the folder entitled Operational Manuals.
now open the document F-16 COMBAT AIRCRAFT FUNDAMENTALS - Multi-Command Handbook 11-F16 Vol5.pdf.
on page 239, section 9.4 details aircraft handling exercises. this includes the Horn Awareness Recovery Training Series - which are intended to teach you how to control the aircraft without getting into a deep stall.
first learn how to get out of a deep stall, then practice HARTS so that you can recover the aircraft before it departs.
EDIT: also, read the manual. feel free to ask questions - but I think you will learn a lot just by reading through the manuals.
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The deep stalls are tough. I was trying the other day with a center line tank and 3 missiles on one wingtip, and still couldn’t get it to deep stall. It would depart, but the FLCS always regains control with ease.
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pull up to 60 degrees and do a high alpha barrel roll
finish if by trying to pull through the vertical.
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Sounds like I need to add more roll inputs then.
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Not sure why nobody has mentioned FLCS limiters, yet. AFAIK, the true method to depart from normal flight (in the F-16) is to attack TWO limiters at the same time: (which is described above when you go max AoA/pitch, and then roll/yaw).
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Hi sanpats
Entering a deep stall is not hard, you just got to know the trick:
1. Set your MPO switch to OVERRIDE.
2. Pitch up to 60 degrees (gun-cross, not FPM)
3. Throttle to idle
4. Hold 60 degrees to stall
5. As you stall try keep your nose at 60 degrees while repeatedly mashing your rudder full left then full right deflection. Hold each deflection for about a second before reversingWith any luck your plane pitch forward to a few degrees down, 90-100kts indicated, no roll response and very little pitch response. Altitude will be spinning down fast. This is your deep stall. Now rock your plane out of the stall and when you have control back remember turn off the MPO.
Hope that helps
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why MPO?
MPO only remove the negative G limiter. -
Just try to over tax two limiters at once. Easy really.
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@.boomer.:
Not sure why nobody has mentioned FLCS limiters, yet. AFAIK, the true method to depart from normal flight (in the F-16) is to attack TWO limiters at the same time: (which is described above when you go max AoA/pitch, and then roll/yaw).
firstly, HARTS maneuvers consist of going to close to max AoA and then rolling. secondly, I would expect that someone asking how to deep stall the aircraft already has an in depth understanding of the limiters and FLCS system.
additionally, you might note that above 25 degrees AoA, the Yaw limiter literally ignores pilot input…. you can go max AoA all you like, but stamping on the pedals wont do anything while above 25 degrees AoA.
If those wanting to experience the deep stall characteristic first hand have NOT got a good understanding of the forces involved, I heavily recommend having a read of the articles on this website, regarding the FLCS and how the limiters operate.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?149-Flight-Model-%28FM%29-Developer-s-Notes-Part-4
this concept of “over taxing” or “wearing on” limiters is an oversimplification, I fear… its all to do with the momentum and forces applied. if you can get the momentum to put the plane into the 60 degree alpha sweet spot, it will deep stall. if you have too much momentum and go right past it, you will not.
Hi sanpats
Entering a deep stall is not hard, you just got to know the trick:
1. Set your MPO switch to OVERRIDE.
2. Pitch up to 60 degrees (gun-cross, not FPM)
3. Throttle to idle
4. Hold 60 degrees to stall
5. As you stall try keep your nose at 60 degrees while repeatedly mashing your rudder full left then full right deflection. Hold each deflection for about a second before reversingWith any luck your plane pitch forward to a few degrees down, 90-100kts indicated, no roll response and very little pitch response. Altitude will be spinning down fast. This is your deep stall. Now rock your plane out of the stall and when you have control back remember turn off the MPO.
Hope that helps
you know, its a very heavy switch to throw, the MPO. its spring held - you have to hold it in the override position. its a very strong spring…
once again, you wont stall by holding 60 degrees… the FLCS will limit your pitch authority and nose down… and by this point you should have no rudder authority.
any time the nose drops, its generally the FLCS doing it for you, not the result of interrupted airflow over the wings.
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The way to get the AFM into a deep stall is to work around the FLCS.
First you need just enough kcas that full up elevator create pitch inertia that exceeds the FLCS’s AoA25º/1g limiter. Too little kcas, the a/c will not get to >AoA25 º to much kcas and FLCS limiter will have the authority to prevent AoA>25º.
Then you need a maneuver that bleed the kcas <150kcas while AoA>25º. At this speed the FLCS will not have the authority to push the nose down to limit AoA back to 25º. This is were the roll with rudder is used.
Now you got the right kcas<150 and AoA>25º, the a/c wing need to be level and the nose needs to be near or just above the horizon.
The thing that really makes it hard, during the maneuver stick authority lessen and at the end of the maneuver, all controls are lost. So it’s a series of events that puts the AFM into a deep stall. You can’t just fly into one……at least I can’t (update3).
It’s not worth the wear and tear on the hotas to practice deep stall, imo. I only been in a two deep stalls during normal game play and both times it was below 15k and I had to eject both times. But, if you got nothing better to do…
Start with this:
(a) at190knt pitch up to 40º and unload a/c
(b) bank 45º
Pull hard on stick to create pitch inertia and
(d) full roll and rudder to reduce speed < 150knt
(e) Idle engine at some point maybewatch AoA indicator and airspeed,
if that didn’t work, here are a few modifications :
If speed is above <140knt, adjust (a) increase the 40º entry and/or lessen the 190knt.
If the maneuver did not end with level wings, adjust (b) start on a 25º or 60º bank
If AoA did not exceed AoA27º adjust (a) increase entry speed only.
If the FLCS returned to AoA25º decrease speed
If all nose is not near the horizon adjust (a) adjust 40º entryTHE VERIBLE ARE ENDLESS.
and if you want to do it with the MPO toggled…go for it…it works when AoA>28º, disables AoA/g limiter and Yaw SAS, iirc.About departure of flight.
There is a differance between departure of flight and deep stall. Irl, the FLCS will recover from departure of flight when the pilot releases the stick. However, after the FLCS stabilizes the departure of flight the a/c could end up in a deep stall if kcas drop below 150s, wings are level and the nose is near the horizon. -
a deep stall is just a departure (being a stall in “departure” conditions… typically high power - low airspeed) that stabilises at 60 degrees angle of attack… right where there is no control authority.
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A deep stall ends in low kcas (<150) at a stable level atitude. The FLCS does not have control authority. The pilot does with MPO. Btw the AoA indicator only goes to 32º.
Departure of flight ends with the a/c tumbling out of control. The pilot should try to recover, he release the stick and let the FLCS do it. Then it possilbe that a/c recovers into deep stall and the pilot must recover from that. -
This post is deleted! -
A deep stall ends in low kcas (<150) at a stable level atitude. The FLCS does not have control authority. The pilot does with MPO. Btw the AoA indicator only goes to 32º.
Departure of flight ends with the a/c tumbling out of control. The pilot should try to recover, he release the stick and let the FLCS do it. Then it possilbe that a/c recovers into deep stall and the pilot must recover from that.technically to be a departure it also needs to be low airspeed. otherwise it is some other variety of stall.
the indicator might only go to 32 degrees, but the aircraft can and does go to 60+. I have on 2 separate occasions managed 180 degrees AoA for a few seconds…
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technically to be a departure it also needs to be low airspeed. otherwise it is some other variety of stall.
nope,
attack TWO limiters at the same time
, asymmetrical loads, high altitude can cause a lost in vertical stab and rudder authority causing the a/c to spin out of control irl. A snap roll is a departure of flight. I’m talking about two different things.
the indicator might only go to 32 degrees, but the aircraft can and does go to 60+. I have on 2 separate occasions managed 180 degrees AoA for a few seconds…
call it what you want.
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that is an accelerated stall, not a departure stall.
a snap roll is also an accelerated stall.
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Are you kidding me ……
Deep stall is so easy… Job follow Coco’s post.
Or ill show you how tonight.
We can do inverted or we can spin while we flutter.
Latter…
PS: or is just my natural inability to get there.