How to force AI follow me?
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If I HAD to prepare such a long flight with F16’s, I’d plan to fly higher (= as a quick guestimation, optimum altitude should be above F260, I think) and probably do (at least) 2 AAR’s on ingress: 1 abeam Taegu/Yechon, and 1 as close to the FLOT as possible/safe.
I’d think even 280 to 300, but is it going to be hard to get to altitude with reasonable speed at the weights being carried? …. T/O is over recommended weight, I think.
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kadena to uiju, 520 miles
2 9m, 2 120, 2 GBU31, 2 600gal
alt FL230,
alter field:any
KC-10 at 38deg(520*15) + 1200 + 400 = Bingo 9400 lbs / Joker 10400 lbs. Enjoy
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kadena to uiju, 520 miles
2 9m, 2 120, 2 GBU31, 2 600gal
alt FL230,
alter field:any
KC-10 at 38degIf we consider a recovery to Kadena (without alternate):
For a human: Bingo = (52010) + 1000 = 6200lbs (minimum!!! considering an Egress at the maximum economical consummation which is not smart/possible over hostile territory).
For your AI: Bingo = (52020) + 1000 = 11400lbs (because AI can’t consider an economical recovery with its actual drag-factor … he has to consider a high D/F anytime.)…
I would rather suggest you to set as recovery filed another airfield than Kadena. Set Seoul or Kimpo as final landing point … and try to see if your IA’s Dynamic Bingo is lower than for Kadean.
In any cases, plan a AAR on Ingress close to the “Push” (with an RVIP located at about 100Nm before FLOT and plan it so that it will be an en-route refuel such as a rendez-vous Golf procedure)
If you set Seoul or Kimpo as recovery (distance from Uiju about 210Nm), theoretical AI Bingo should be about (210*20) + 1000 = 5200lbs.
So … if you plan an AAR during Ingress, and Push with 9000lbs (consider it a a minimum fuel at Push), you will be over TGT with about 5500lbs remaining (so about 300lbs of combat fuel). Not a lot of possible evasive or offensive maneuvers. You will have to focus on your task.
Plan your flight at the highest applicable flight level with the lowest possible drag factor.
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I’d think even 280 to 300, but is it going to be hard to get to altitude with reasonable speed at the weights being carried? …. T/O is over recommended weight, I think.
yes, soon after u climb to it, u need to descend for fighting.
since u burn more fuel when climb, u dont save much. -
What about F16-C 52+ w/CFT? And tanks?
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With detailed planning (for example down to the detail of climbing slightly as calculated as weight decreases) it is surprising how far the F-16 can go. With triple 370/300 tanks I’m guessing south coast of Korea to China and back without AAR is possible. Enemy action is very disruptive to fuel planning, non-optimal speeds and altitudes less so. AI are very picky about fuel and not great at saving it. I wouldn’t plan any AI mission beyond Pyongyang without AAR. Since AI never count on AAR for return leg I find AAR on return leg to be a waste of time.
I will try a mission plan from Kadena to China with 2xGBU-31 payload and AI to see if it’s possible.
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With detailed planning (for example down to the detail of climbing slightly as calculated as weight decreases) it is surprising how far the F-16 can go. With triple 370/300 tanks I’m guessing south coast of Korea to China and back without AAR is possible. Enemy action is very disruptive to fuel planning, non-optimal speeds and altitudes less so. AI are very picky about fuel and not great at saving it. I wouldn’t plan any AI mission beyond Pyongyang without AAR. Since AI never count on AAR for return leg I find AAR on return leg to be a waste of time.
I will try a mission plan from Kadena to China with 2xGBU-31 payload and AI to see if it’s possible.
According to BMS, F16 can do it. Question is, will BMS let AI do it?
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I flew a TE from Kadena to Shenyang with an AI. Loadout was BLK52 370x2 300 120x2 9x2 GBU-31v3x2. Total trip length 1272.6nm.
AI had approx 9900# when I was at 9000# so it was sipping better than I was. When I was at 6850# he called joker. Approx 60nm from target AI went bingo-stupid as I expected him to sometime on the flight. I don’t know if dynamic bingo calc considers drag or not. I had him dump stores and rejoin which he did until half way back and then raced for home. I landed with ~2350 lbs and AI made it back to Kadena with stupid flying and landed on fumes.
I think if I would have packed 2x600 tanks AI might have made it long enough to drop bombs and tanks on target and not calculate bingo and make it home easily. In practice I would have scheduled AAR for a flight of >1200nm though.
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I don’t know if dynamic bingo calc considers drag or not.
Always considering the “max” common drag factor possible in campaign. Nothing we can do here as it is an internal limitation imposed by the database (only one possible value)
Approx 60nm from target AI went bingo-stupid
You can’t said this … because before, about 70% of flights were crashing on ground out of fuel before reaching homeplate.
Now, and for the 1st time in Falcon4 history, AI does fuel management. Just take it in consideration during mission planning.
Much less stupid than running out of fuel because of no management at all.
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Now, and for the 1st time in Falcon4 history, AI does fuel management. Just take it in consideration during mission planning.
Much less stupid than running out of fuel because of no management at all.
That is very true, especially for all AI flights.
But maybe we can workaround OP issue if we implemented the following :
A human leader has the capability to override the dynamic bingo of his wingmens and takes on itself to manage their fuel. As an example, if the player knows there’s a refueling down the road, he can “deactivate” the dynamic bingo behaviour. Or if he feels AI has enough fuel to stay over a target, for ex. This could be done via a radio message. -
In the next version, AI from your own flight will stay until you tell them to return to base.
But all other flights will obey to they Dyn Bingo computation. -
Relax Dee-Jay by “bingo-stupid” I mean expected behavior. I wanted to see where the AI would turn around on that flight. I planned the test expecting AI to turn around. I darn near made it the whole way. If I learned more about the calculation it would be predictable so I could plan better.
When AI would bug out It was kinda weird though when I ordered a rejoin he obeyed and kept saying “2” “2” “2” “2” a lot without getting really back into formation but not going home. Eventually he separated again and flew some odd circle around home plate before declaring an emergency and landing.
Good news about the 4.33 change. I expect plenty of leaders will run their wingies dry A small change that would help me a lot is if fuel reported was to floor 100 lbs instead of floor 1000.
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I was getting frustrated about the AI turning back due to bingo not too far from a tanker. After speaking to someone in the know, they mentioned that is correct behaviour for RL pilots too. Because what would happen if you go past bingo to get to tanker, and the tanker has a malfunction? Hence why US always chooses paths for their long flights where there are alternative landing plates nearby, as tanker malfunction does happen.
So, the answer is, plan to perform Air refuelling before you hit bingo.
Im not saying this is gospel, but how I believe it to be.
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Im not saying this is gospel, but how I believe it to be.
It is, and you are right.
Safe recovery has to be considered even in the case of missing Tanker. You have to plan a possible divert to take it in consideration and compute you Bingo accordingly.
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Hi all, not to much into the dynamics of the F-16 but enjoy the sim. Several months ago when I was into to the sim before my computer crashed , I built a mission that stress the flyer from t/o to land 3 hrs and 15 minutes, two A/R’s ECM package,a sweep package, and a AWACS all from different Bases. The TGT was Nachodka Port (N42-56.658 E134-09.783), not a tgt that a F-16 from Kunsan would strike. Purpose, nite T/O, nite A/R, Packages merging and coordinated strike on TGT. Then twilight A/R to home plate. First tanker KC-10 and 2nd tanker a KC-135. To solve some of my timing problems all timing was placed on the real pilot me. In order to make your ETA’s Slow downs, orbit’s and speed ups had to be used. I found that having Delta time available and displaying your ETA and ETE works very nicely. All A/C were flying different routes, AWACS flew a route/orbit close to all flights, ECM arrived at TGT several minutes before strike for jamming, F-15 arrived in front of strike package to clear enemy fighters and then the strike package. F-15 walked me all the way back to FLOT. The Ravens were first in Last out and headed home. Then came the second Tanker 50% of the time the AI will hang with you and 50% of the time he will call bingo and head to the nearest friendly base. If I screw the pooch on the 1st A/R you may get a call before TGT he is BINGO and away he goes. It goes to say fuel management is critical from t/o to TGT to get the AI to come along. I noticed that several asked what was your loadout I carried 2 120B, 2 A9LM 4 GB12 1 AL119 and 2 600 TKs so heavy, Altitude, fuel consumption, and speed have to be watched. For a Rookie TE builder and a fair driver it was tough and interesting.
What was this all about you can make your AI follow if you are careful fuel checks are a constant, get on your ETA and +or - 1 minute, keep your jet at a mid altitude 22000 at t/o was tough to hold but 20000 was good, test the waters it seemed every time I had to pull the throttle back to hold ETA it was time to climb. Get on that tanker and off ASAP get you AI on and start working you ETA again to your next point. Every time I tried to fly this I had to orbit at next SPT to allow Raven to pass me and again make my ETA’s got to watch that fuel if you want company during the bomb run and if you both get there make it a two(er) I took one crane and gave my wingie the other. All in all if you do it right it’s a great mission. It took me two days to plan it to get all sorties over the TGT in order and on time but it was worth it. This is the best flight simulator I have every flown, the learning never stops, Kudos for the DEV’s.WeakLink