AI after refueling refuse to rejoin
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there is a known bug with ai package elements (human flts are not affected) and their datalink, after they land or got shot down, their flight is removed from the package hence from the datalink order.
in the 13th training te, f16 flt is the 4th element in the package.
in case either of the other packages rtb / vanish from 3d, f16 flight’s idm number would move up to 3, 2 and finally 1 when no other flights are left in 3d….next time something like this happens, goto ded idm page and change your ai wingies’ datalink number, say from 42 to 32 and see if no2 (given he’s alive) show up again on the datalink?
all this is completely unrelated with their refueling behavior of course…
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I agree with Moort – I think the datalink issue is unrelated. If you are tanking in that TE, you are way WAAAY off the flight plan and the mission’s timings with other flights in your package are probably the root cause there. The issue with IDM drop outs has to do with aggregation/deaggregation and fixing it would break TacEdit for which as yet there is no replacement tool so we’ve left this one alone.
For the AAR thing, yes, I would not recommend calling a rejoin until the AI clears the tanker. It’s not needed in that case because they clear the tanker pattern to starboard and as soon as they are clear more than one half nautical mile then they look to reform on you anyway. I can look at what happens when someone does call “rejoin” before they bug out of the tanker pattern…not sure what the code will do with that…could be that this hangs up the tanker state machine. Obviously for now the answer is: don’t do that!
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Send me a TE with a player jet, a single AI wingie and a tanker in which you can run into this issue 100% of the time. [A minimal TE like that helps with debug a lot by keeping the number of entities to a minimum…less chaff to work through in memory to find the wheat.] Then with that describe exactly what you do to initiate the AAR evolution and progress through that; I mean running commentary on every control input you supply that isn’t simple stick/throttle movement along with what you hear/see for radio exchanges with tanker and wingies. I can only imagine that we are doing something different and that as a result you are finding a hole in the AAR state machine. That animal is complicated and sizable. Without reliable repro case and instructions the chances of me finding a problem I can’t readily replicate are slim to hell on a chilly day.
I’d wager I’ve done more AAR evolutions than just about anyone here given how much testing goes into this to get the code to behave right. I have never seen this issue. Doesn’t mean there isn’t a black swan someplace but I need help to see it if there is and conversely my experience is that the code is pretty reliable…100% opposite of what you see apparently.
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Gotcha Boxer, lemme see if I can recreate and replicate this in a sterile environment.
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Boxer, when I posted the other thread yesterday it was after a Refueling TE sortie. First cycle went off without a hitch, second cycle was when the wingie didn’t rejoin. Instead he stayed in formation with the tanker. I’ve also seen it during campaign missions though.
I have a theory though… It seems you have to be fairly precise about the pre-contact position and when you hit Y-2 key combo and I have seen me having to hit it three or four times before being cleared to contact position. I am beginning to wonder if my own poor airmanship (not getting into proper position before asking for Y-2 permission) is a contributing factor? I guess to test it further. I need to go and fly poorly! Shouldn’t be too difficult…
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Boxer, when I posted the other thread yesterday it was after a Refueling TE sortie. First cycle went off without a hitch, second cycle was when the wingie didn’t rejoin. Instead he stayed in formation with the tanker. I’ve also seen it during campaign missions though.
I have a theory though… It seems you have to be fairly precise about the pre-contact position and when you hit Y-2 key combo and I have seen me having to hit it three or four times before being cleared to contact position. I am beginning to wonder if my own poor airmanship (not getting into proper position before asking for Y-2 permission) is a contributing factor? I guess to test it further. I need to go and fly poorly! Shouldn’t be too difficult…
You should not need ‘Y-2’ at all. After ‘Y-1’ (done when all AC in the flight are within 10 miles of the tanker) you will be cleared to pre-contact. If you are in the correct pre-contact position (gun cross on the boom and in close), you will get cleared to contact.
I can assure you that the ‘Y-2’ command is not the cause (or not a unique cause) of the AI wing-man staying in formation with the tanker.
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You should not need ‘Y-2’ at all. After ‘Y-1’ (done when all AC in the flight are within 10 miles of the tanker) you will be cleared to pre-contact. If you are in the correct pre-contact position (gun cross on the boom and in close), you will get cleared to contact.
I can assure you that the ‘Y-2’ command is not the cause (or not a unique cause) of the AI wing-man staying in formation with the tanker.
Thanks for your input. I’ll try a couple join-ups once the MotoGP qualifying is finished and report back how it goes.
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Don’t forget that pre-contact requires position and rate – if your boom-relative closure rate isn’t near zero [stable] the boomer will decide you are dangerous and won’t clear you even if you pass through the correct position in 3D space for clearance from pre-contact.
I’m sure this is written in many threads but I’ll repeat it here since I haven’t typed it in lately anywhere Y-2 is useful for one and only one very specific situation. If you are a player, it’s your turn to take fuel, you manually kicked yourself off the boom using the HOTAS AR/DISC having already taken a non-zero amount of fuel, then using Y-2 will tell the boomer that you want another go at the boom before any other aircraft in the Q is serviced. You’d issue this for example in a case where you want to practice contact over and over…get on boom, kick yourself off, Y-2, get back on the boom, rinse repeat until you are bored then Y-3 to release the tanker to move on down the Q to the next jet or return to waiting for the next flight or what-have-you.
At any other time, if you hit Y-2 all you will hear is “Roger” – sort of like my kids when they say “whatever” – hint: he’s ignoring you
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In the past week or so, I’ve done numerous refuels and haven’t hit the Y-2 combo at any time. Wingies have rejoined on me after every cycle also. It may well be coincidence, but at least I’ve not had the problem previously encountered. Maybe somewhere in the code the Y-2 before actually taking any fuel was having a negative effect on the AI somehow?
Anyway… Thanks for the heads-up Boxer