Using guided or unguided bombs on SEAD strike missions?
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Hi, I am still very new to the game, only been playing for about a week. I watched all of Krause’s tutorials on youtube and now I feel pretty comfortable in the cockpit. I am just not ready for multiplayer, so I have been flying just in campaign mode.
My favorite mission type are SEAD strikes and escorts. Some times when I am setting stuff up for a SEAD mission, I have 2 AGM88’s and 4 large bombs. Forgot the name, but I think they are GBU somethings. Especially in the Israel campaign, usually I dont even have A-G missile available.
I am wondering, how do I attack SAM sites with bombs? The only way I know of finding them is with the HAD, and it doesnt seem that I can use it with bombs, just the AGM88’s. Thanks.
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Revisit Krause for CCRP and CCIP bombing modes “generally” CCRP + FCR for Iron bombs and CCIP + Mk1 eyeball for cluster bombs.
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you would have to recon them generally, which gives you a steerpoint to help guide your attack. once you know where they are roughly it is a simple matter to use your A-G radar to find the radar & launcher vehicles. depending on the type you are carrying, you can use low level cluster attacks, high laser guided bombs, or medium-level cluster bombs.
generally when you attack sam sites you use AGM88s and then CBU-87 / MK-20D rockeye. if the site is particularly well-defended, or of a high tier sam (SA-10+) AGM88s could be replaced with GBU-31/32/38 on a toss, which is a low-level attack method that helps you not get shot. those bombs are GPS-guided, which is something else.
if you’re just playing korea though most site attacks should be pretty easy; use HARM to break the site’s FCR then roll in with your clusterbomb of choice and wipe it out.
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use JSOW whenever available. If not practice CBU ccip dropping on site after you HARM the sam radar or risk being downed. Most SAM’s can be neutralized at long range 30 miles with HARM if you maintain them tracking you in your RWR and they are in the HAD/HAS. Once that is accomplished use the cbu’s to clean up the rest of the site which will respawn unless you destroyed every vehicle in the unit or as referred to in Falcon; surrendered.
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In the israel theater and Battle for Sinai, SA-6s are sitting ducks for low level ingress. Did a flight yesterday with only the last 7-10 seconds or so visible to the radar…
that was a preplanned one though. If you want to find them without using the recon screen (say because you are SEAD escort through the fog of war), then you have a few tools to help you get eyes on the target area. The RWR is a good first hint that will give you the general direction of the threat. ITO and BFS both feature big smoke trails behind SAMs, and those sort of act like a giant arrow pointing to the SAM site.
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You could try the training range from Mower in the Israel theatre. There is a ‘nasty little bugger’ located on a strategic spot under the smoke of an airbase. Setting up a low level attack teaches you good skills, as well as in flying as in bomb delivery.
Multiple weaponchoices are possible, but ‘just’ coming in with AGM65B/D’s wont get you do the job done and survive (or being verrrry lucky ) I use rockeyes (4x) low level, CCIP, get out. Exposure of around 10 seconds almost gets me killed any time, so it keeps being challenging.
Good luck,
Regards,
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Hello, is it me or nobody mentioned the difference between SEAD and DEAD? SEAD is formally defined as keeping the SAM threat in a posture that is not threatening other aircraft, DEAD however is the destruction of the SAM battery. In the context of what the OP asked - bombs have nothing to do with SEAD, they are useful though for DEAD or maybe S&D (‘SEAD and DEAD’ - a combo of both)
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SEAD escort / strike is what the game calls it. technically there’s a difference but he’s probably just asking about what the game calls SEAD, so we answered.
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SEAD escort / strike is what the game calls it.
The game has several different mission types when it comes to dealing with air defenses - ‘SEAD Strike’ ‘SEAD Escort’, ‘S&D’. The first one honors you with a ‘Mission success’ rating when you’ve hit your assigned SAM FCR, the second - when there aren’t losses among your escortee element, the third - on the amount of damage you’ve dealt to the assigned battery
he’s probably just asking about what the game calls SEAD
hmmm……what he asked was this–>
I am wondering, how do I attack SAM sites with bombs?
And my opinion on this is - you attack SAM sites with bombs the way you attack any other well defended troop formation - CCIP for better accuracy with dumb bombs and CCRP with smart ones and stay out of range of SHORADS (provided you’ve taken out the battery FCR first of course)
Also on the topic of:The only way I know of finding them is with the HAD, and it doesnt seem that I can use it with bombs…
This is THE most convenient way of finding SAMs, except for static ones! Basically you find them with your HAD, either use your HUD or HMCS to pinpoint them then go ahead and bomb 'em, although you’d like to have good weather for this - good vis and high ceiling.
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@mookar:
The game has several different mission types when it comes to dealing with air defenses - ‘SEAD Strike’ ‘SEAD Escort’, ‘S&D’. The first one honors you with a ‘Mission success’ rating when you’ve hit your assigned SAM FCR, the second - when there aren’t losses among your escortee element, the third - on the amount of damage you’ve dealt to the assigned battery
hmmm……what he asked was this–>
And my opinion on this is - you attack SAM sites with bombs the way you attack any other well defended troop formation - CCIP for better accuracy with dumb bombs and CCRP with smart ones and stay out of range of SHORADS (provided you’ve taken out the battery FCR first of course)
Also on the topic of:This is THE most convenient way of finding SAMs, except for static ones! Basically you find them with your HAD, either use your HUD or HMCS to pinpoint them then go ahead and bomb 'em, although you’d like to have good weather for this - good vis and high ceiling.
I’m inferring from your comment that you can use the HMCS to set markpoints now? I can’t wait to get back to flying.
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I’m inferring from your comment that you can use the HMCS to set markpoints now?
No, by ‘mark’ I mean look and see where it is literally. Whatever you ‘TMS UP’ in the HAD gets a TD box on your HMCS to show you where exactly is the SAM FCR. Anyhow, as far as I know there isn’t a mark function to the HMCS in BMS per se
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I’m inferring from your comment that you can use the HMCS to set markpoints now? I can’t wait to get back to flying.
You would use your HMCS to locate the SAM radar position visually. Once you see the location visually, head to that location. When ready, switch to CCIP and release your bombs on the SAM site.
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@mookar:
No, by ‘mark’ I mean look and see where it is literally. Whatever you ‘TMS UP’ in the HAD gets a TD box on your HMCS to show you where exactly is the SAM FCR. Anyhow, as far as I know there isn’t a mark function to the HMCS in BMS per se
Ah, I was thinking more along the lines of setting the HMCS as SOI (if such a thing is possible, I last played in the F4:AF days and all the HMCS was good for was firing AIM-9X), and then setting where you were looking to be a mark point. So if you see something of interest you could mark it and then come back for it later. This still sounds useful though.
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you can create markpoints with the HUD, so yeah it could be done. OFLY might also work but it’s not exactly accurate.
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Shooting SAMs without the AGM-88 is fighting with your strongest ARM tied behind your back (huge pun). The degree of difficulty goes up. Depending on the particular threat or threat environment and what weapons available, safe attack is marginal or non-existent.
Lofting bombs, guided or unguided is surprisingly good as an alternative to standoff missiles. The Maverick seems like the next logical choice after the ARM but I find difficulty in employing them with equal or better survivability compared to lofted free-fall munitions.
Getting suitable targeting data to perform an attack becomes the next challenge. If it can be pre-planned, then do so obviously but on the fly TGP, radar, mk I eyeball, markpoints, HAD, HMCS can be combined creatively to generate targeting data. SA-6s in Israel are doable with a low toss assuming there aren’t supporting threats. SA-2s in Korea 80s often require some lucky terrain to use for masking.
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I’d add, it’s not realistic to have HARMs as well as some other bombs on a loadout (standard loadout is always with the 370 gal tanks).
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I was pretty shocked to read in Hampton’s Viper Pilot book that he preferred SEAD with bombs.
No HARMS=No SEAD for ye olde Toonces. That’s how I roll.
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I was pretty shocked to read in Hampton’s Viper Pilot book that he preferred SEAD with bombs.
No HARMS=No SEAD for ye olde Toonces. That’s how I roll.
In fairness he was not attacking S-300 family weapons.
Bombs does mean more passes, and it does mean better chance of actually destroying the target.
It also means better chance of dying horrifically if there is an SA-10 mixed in there…
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I’d add, it’s not realistic to have HARMs as well as some other bombs on a loadout (standard loadout is always with the 370 gal tanks).
That’s why my go-to airframe for weaseling in F4:AF was the one with the integrated jammer, you could run a centerline fuel tank and have more room for weapons. I forget which model it was.
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In fairness he was not attacking S-300 family weapons.
Bombs does mean more passes, and it does mean better chance of actually destroying the target.
It also means better chance of dying horrifically if there is an SA-10 mixed in there…
I just finished that book, it’s what got me back interested in falcon after a long hiatus. They sometimes ran missions with mixed aircraft. F-4s with HARMs and F-16 with CBU.