Mission Commander, an attempt at writing a manual
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Hang on, there’s the “Manuals Time” (4.35 ones this time), I’m trusting them to take all the necessary time to make beautiful, and above all extremely necessary, new manuals.
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While you are learning MC, you also need to know what the BMS code is doing with this data.
And that’s the “heart of the problem”.
As soon as I want to understand the Database in combination with MC and what it’s used in BMS the only reference would be analysing leaked old code or doing guesswork by playtestingI about fell of my chair with that statement about needing to know the code? Does he think the current BMS code is widely available to the public? Why would he say something about that in that manner??? Not a single one of us are SEERS!!!
C9
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Ultimately what would be best is to have the tool into BMS itself one day… However, I guess we are all lucky that Falcas even wrote it and released it for us to use, but there’s so many features to maintain for one enthusiast, and so many developments in bms to keep track of… Let’s see it for what it is, MC is extremely useful but requires quite a lot of trial and error wisdom. In that respect a manual is a pretty steep hill to climb and probably a waste of time, though thumbs up for the initiative; perhaps a knowledge base / problem tracker is more practical ; I.e. Don’t change the time in a campaign under condition X and Y to avoid MP issues that do not show up in SP etc such that many pitfalls can be avoided for the average mission builder.
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@Cloud:
I about fell of my chair with that statement about needing to know the code? Does he think the current BMS code is widely available to the public? Why would he say something about that in that manner??? Not a single one of us are SEERS!!!
C9
As anybody knows that I was not talking about needing to dive into the BMS code.
I’ll give you a example to ease your mind.Why can’t I add a new weapon to my F-16 in MC?
Because this needs to be done in the database.I have a weapon like the B61 on the F-16, but I can’t use it in campaign.
Because this needs to be changed in the database.I don’t want rockets being loaded by the campaign engine. So in MC under Squadron->Stores I set the value for the rockets to zero.
Why do I have rockets again in some time???
This is because the Code is doing a resupply.I am pretty sure you know all this. But do you realize this is knowledge about the database and what the code is doing
If you want to know more details, you need to understand more and more what is in the database and what the code is doing.
But never in a ridicules way.Is all this important for a normal user? No it is not.
99% of the MC users will be using it to improve there own created TEs or tweak campaigns a little.
MC is full of handy features for this and can be used without any of this deep knowledge.The comment was only for those who create theaters from the ground up.
Gr Falcas
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Ultimately what would be best is to have the tool into BMS itself one day…
Nope, this is the worst what can happen.
As a normal user of BMS you don’t need MC at all.
Yes there are some features which are very handy and can’t be done in BMS. These features might end up in BMS itself, who knows.IMO MC has 3 different kinds of users.
- Theater builders, which needs to do the most and know the most details.
- Campaign creators, do NOT need to know anything about placing Objectives, Links or POL/PAKs, Strings for example. Nothing you are going to do with those.
Just about Units and those kinds of things. - Normal user, which just want to use the handy features for improving there TEs.
For the normal user group, MC is very simple to use and minimal knowledge about BMS is needed.
But as always, the more you know the easier it isGr Falcas
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there’s a missing category: converting TEs from older version of BMS, it’s not as transparent as its coder might think
for the rest I basically agree and I’m mostly in the 3rd category BUT I miss quite a bit of information about how to use MC to that effect correctly.
example: making a ground battalion move or stop or do whatever I want it to do to serve the purpose of my TE
Many of these aspects are NOT intuitive and NOT obvious for the user side of things and I fight MC quite often about thatIMHO, a manual about that category would be useful, at least to me
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Hi Lorik,
The challenge is worth it. It will take time for sure and in the end the satisfaction you will receive is even greater, you already achieved one step.
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@Red:
there’s a missing category: converting TEs from older version of BMS, it’s not as transparent as its coder might think
This falls very much under the normal user category, although it might be a little bit more advanced.
About transparent… its actually the only feature which exactly tells you what to do.
Just follow the steps described, nothing more to it.
If you are talking about the questions you get during the conversion process… Don’t make a big issue about it. Its really nothing more than reading the question, making a choice and answer the question. Also here, not much to it. If you think more of it… its the user that makes it more complicated than it actually is.
In case of doubt, pick anything you think is best.The conversion feature will get the mission file up to date to the latest BMS version. It adds at the extra bits and byte. However it is not a click and done feature!!!
For small TEs it might even be better to just rebuild them from scratch. But for theater and campaign builders this is a must. Else the theater can never be used for a new version of BMS.
If there are differences between databases, MC will try to sort that out. Usually it is a renaming of Units, Vehicles, Weapons or Objectives. In this case its just a matter of picking what is the best option. Most of this is already done automatically by MC.2 Examples
1.
A loadout is no longer possible on a specific hardpoint or aircraft. In this case just check the flight after conversion and change the loadout as needed.
Example: A flight of F-16s had HARMs as a loadout. In the new version this specific F-16 is no longer possible to carry HARMs. MC can not solve this by itself and will come with a question with which weapon you want to replace it on this specific hardpoint. And it will give you a list of option to pick from.
You won’t find a HARM in this case. What to pick? Answer is simple: it does not matter what you pick.
You have a SEAD flight which is not able to carry HARMs. So after the conversion is completed and mission is saved you need to make the mission workable again.
Change the aircraft to something which can carry HARMs. Or let it use other weapons. It all up to the user to do these kinds of things.If MC can’t find an Objective the human is asked to make a choice. Sometimes the choice can not be made.
For example an Objective is no longer included in the new version. In this case, it really doesn’t matter what you pick for the conversion process.
Chances are minimal, but in case it is the target objective, this can always be checked and fixed after conversion.@Red:
for the rest I basically agree and I’m mostly in the 3rd category BUT I miss quite a bit of information about how to use MC to that effect correctly.
example: making a ground battalion move or stop or do whatever I want it to do to serve the purpose of my TE
Many of these aspects are NOT intuitive and NOT obvious for the user side of things and I fight MC quite often about thatIMHO, a manual about that category would be useful, at least to me
About the battalions moving… not much I can tell. This because you can not control them more than you already know.
To my knowledge there is no trick to let a battalion arrive at a specific location at a given time. Or anything to make them stop.
No exact control over the battalions during TE or campaign as far as I know. You can drag drop the final point of a battalion to the location you want. But that is just giving an order. If the battalion follows that order is a different matter.
Even if you start messing with the stpts for the battalions it is not a guarantee they will do exactly that.
During campaign, the battalions can turn around and move away from there objective if the campaign engine decides its better.gr Falcas
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my main gripe to be honest was that sometimes a right click is needed and that one is ot intuitive, there’s no actual hints that there is Something happening when right clicking on that line.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?10005-Mission-Commander-beta-release&p=543445&viewfull=1#post543445
It’s one of the typical it’s obvious for the programmer but not so for the user type of things and that’s where the manuals are Handy IMHOThe other gripe I have is that Something you do as you just explained on 3 battalions and in the game, 2 of the UI comply and the third does not
But I confess in these case I Don’t really blame MC, I blame BMS and it’s sometimes unexplainable AI behaviourIn any way, MC is great. I Don’t see any issue with doing a manual for the user category as you explained them. IMHO it would benefit all the Community and clear a lot of confusion
but that’s just me and manuals -
Refuse is a big word
If you think about it, you don’t even want me to write the manual as this is counter productive.
You want me doing more coding, less talking
On top, reading how someone else is understanding the tool is extremely helpful to improve the tool itself.
At least one bug has been fixed again due to this manual.IMHO an ultimate perfect tool does not need a manual as it should be obvious from the start.
If you need a manual stating a “start” button will start something… well are you really up to using a tool in that case?
However, MC is not ultimate perfect and the material is too complex.
As stated before, if you want to fully understand MC you first need to understand the whole database.
While you are learning MC, you also need to know what the BMS code is doing with this data.
All in all way too much to know or write a manual about. Most Devs don’t even know, including me. Learning new stuff all the time.Honestly, the manual was/is a very good start. Lorik clearly stated the features which he did know about. So I could give him some explanation about those.
Yes some statements where incorrect or incomplete. But that is life.I am a bit worried about starting myths. This because some though ones has been going around for many years. Funny thing is that some of them reappear again after they have been explained why they are not correct.
And never forget, BMS is not standing still. (and will never come to a stop) Things are changing a lot.So if everybody can remain a little flexible and never take a manual as the full and complete truth, I do hope Lorik finds a way to continue.
gr Falcas
Hi Falcas !
May i ask a question.
what does the flag “emitting” mean? if i let the object or unit emitting, it will not move?