Stoopid Question of the Week
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Sorry guys for a stoopid question of opinion and not a question that can be answered with hard fact.
Currently I have a plain old joystick for FSX and any non-uber serious flying games, a mad catz F.L.Y. 5. It’s great for non-BMS, and “fine” for BMS, but I’ll never get good enough at BMS with it to fully enjoy the potential of the game nor rise to the level where I can join online.
So my question is, can I get by with something like the TFlight HOTAS X entry level or do I really really need a Warthog HOTAS.
I get it that the Warthog is better - metal, heavy, “real” feeling", but is it actually $700 better?
Is BMS something that one really needs to be paying $800 for a joystick to play? A sport wherein if you have to ask, you can’t afford entry?
I don’t want to suck, but I don’t want to spend $800 bucks, either. Thoughts?By the way, were I to get the warthog, will it require as much tweaking as the tflght hotas X anyway (because the warthog was built for DCS and not BMS)?
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My answer. Take it or leave it. You’re worrying way too much about flight controllers. Go fly with what you’ve got. I know several that have great MP flights with keyboard and mouse. Of course a Warthog is going to have all the bells and whistles, but there are many options out there that will allow for the most basic of buttons/switches to be “mostly” hand on throttle and stick. Controller prices are stupid right now, as is most hardware. Get what you can budget, and go have a great time
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Sorry guys for a stoopid question of opinion and not a question that can be answered with hard fact.
Currently I have a plain old joystick for FSX and any non-uber serious flying games, a mad catz F.L.Y. 5. It’s great for non-BMS, and “fine” for BMS, but I’ll never get good enough at BMS with it to fully enjoy the potential of the game nor rise to the level where I can join online.
So my question is, can I get by with something like the TFlight HOTAS X entry level or do I really really need a Warthog HOTAS.
I get it that the Warthog is better - metal, heavy, “real” feeling", but is it actually $700 better?
Is BMS something that one really needs to be paying $800 for a joystick to play? A sport wherein if you have to ask, you can’t afford entry?
I don’t want to suck, but I don’t want to spend $800 bucks, either. Thoughts?By the way, were I to get the warthog, will it require as much tweaking as the tflght hotas X anyway (because the warthog was built for DCS and not BMS)?
You’ll pay later. Enjoy with cheap material. You know you won’t have a full HOTAS mapping but the day you change, it will be rebirth.
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I don’t think you need a good stick to be “good” at BMS. You’re more likely to find it easier with more switches and HATs than improving the stick itself.
I bought a very budget friendly Speedlink (£15) stick to get started, to see if I loved BMS like I used to enjoy F4 20 years ago. Clearly I did.
It has a rubbish throttle, 8 buttons and one HAT. It was perfectly workable (with use of DX shift to double function the HAT and buttons).
I’ve since added a separate throttle - CH (£50) - to gain lots of extra buttons/hats. But kept the cheap stick. It works.
At some point I’ll probably replace the stick, but no plans to go expensive. The t.16000m apparently uses the same sensors as the warthog and has everything I need.
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+1 the T.16000M hall sensors (on the main X/Y axes) are great. (The 8-bit throttle-slider is rubbish tho, bad enough I wrote my own software emulator for throttle … lol)
Drivers are good quality… but apparently rest of TM software is terrible and has not been maintained for a decade. I would not invest more than ~US$50 in anything from Thrustmaster at this point.
VKB Gladiator NXT seems to be the best desktop joystick (no hotas throttle) that ~US$120 can buy, right now.
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+1 to all aforementioned replies……I’ve flown with amazing virtual BMS pilots that can kick my ass without TIR or a fancy HOTAS…I’ve always flown with the plastic x52 but she treats me right especially in the turn AAR, at night, in bad weather…and Bob’s your uncle
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+1 the T.16000M hall sensors (on the main X/Y axes) are great. (The 8-bit throttle-slider is rubbish tho, bad enough I wrote my own software emulator for throttle … lol)
throttle)Is the Z axis ok?
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I was thinking a bit more about this question, and thought it might be helpful to list the things that have made the biggest difference to my BMS experience in the 3 months or so I’ve been learning, and buying things on the cheap. I vowed this wouldn’t be a money pit. I’m probably kidding myself.
So, in order of impact:
1. A stick. Any old stick. Can’t do much without it. Ideally one with a HAT so you can pan around a bit, and then re-use it for other things when you upgrade to item number 2. I paid £15 for one with a rubbish throttle, 8 buttons and a hat. Mapping - hat for POV, buttons on stick for pickle and trigger, CMS up, NWS/MSL step, then on the base - TMS Up, DMS down, radar range up/down. Everything else on keyboard or mouse.
2. Headtracking - I started with notrackir, which was ok but laggy, ended up with a budget Delanclip which works very nicely. £50. Now I got this, I was able to use the hat on the stick for TMS and, when DX shifted, radar cursor slew.
3. A separate throttle with lots of buttons or HATs. I got a CH Throttle for £50 (which was a bargain) off eBay, I have 4 hats mapped to CMS/TMS/DMS and trim. Three buttons - UHF/VHF/DX Shift. The hat on the stick is still used for radar cursor, and shifted it’s steerpoint up down and two spare functions. Buttons 3 and 4 on top of stick are now MSL Cage and NWS/MSL Step, and shifted they zoom the TGP in and out.
4. Kungfoo’s excellent MFD and ICP app on a smashed up iPad. Cost = £0 as I had everything.
So that’s about £120 (maybe $130?). I have also added a switch panel of my own making, based on a bodnar board. This is basically a mount for the iPad and adds switches for things like gear, master arm, etc. Etc.
So now, with adding AVCS and VoiceAttack, I only ever use the keyboard for pressing ESC at the end of a mission.
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Is the Z axis ok?
Not sure how it compares to other consumer-grade sticks. Seems to have pretty big hardware deadzone, combined with a few degrees of looseness on the handle… but also a pretty stiff spring, so I’ve not found it very usable or controllable for anything more delicate than taxiing around… staying lined up with runway after touching down.
It is also 8-bit (-128,+127) range, so I assume it’s an old analog pan-pot… the hall sensor axes are 15-bit resolution.
I recently discovered BMS falls back to using the x-axis for NWS control, if you have rudder mapped to keyboard. And even just steering around the taxiway is noticably nicer, that way. I’ve had the thought of mapping z-axis to control FOV (viz. twist to zoom in) … especially since I’ve coopted my mousewheel for a throttle, lol. But I haven’t actually tried that yet.
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I recently discovered BMS falls back to using the x-axis for NWS control, if you have rudder mapped to keyboard. And even just steering around the taxiway is noticably nicer, that way. I’ve had the thought of mapping z-axis to control FOV (viz. twist to zoom in) … especially since I’ve coopted my mousewheel for a throttle, lol. But I haven’t actually tried that yet.
Yes, that’s what I use at the moment. But nws on take off is not ideal, and with nws off there’s no rudder input to keep you lined up.
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If anyone’s interested, here’s the (relatively) low budget setup I describe above.The one control I forgot to mention was the throttle on the stick is now antenna tilt.
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with nws off there’s no rudder input to keep you lined up.
There are the [comma] and [period] keys. (Think those are the default keybindings.) Could use a couple stick-base buttons… Definitely not “smooth” experience but if you tap them off/on you can have a little finer-grain control…
If I ever get around to wiring up my DragWheel prototype to vJoy, I plan to experiment with mapping horizontal-drag to control a virtual rudder axis.
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what about the Logitech X-series?
G Pro Flight X56 Rhino HOTAS?
G X56 H.O.T.A.S. RGB?
G X52 Flight Control System?Recommend/No recommend for BMS?
The first two look almost identical except the color - one blue one black.
Most of those have “Saitek” on the pics - did Logitech buy Saitek? How the quality of those brands today? -
Got my Logitech X56 (grey one) in July 2019. Use it almost every day. Has plenty of buttons/switches for BMS. Zero complaints.
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There are the [comma] and [period] keys. (Think those are the default keybindings.) Could use a couple stick-base buttons… Definitely not “smooth” experience but if you tap them off/on you can have a little finer-grain control…
If I ever get around to wiring up my DragWheel prototype to vJoy, I plan to experiment with mapping horizontal-drag to control a virtual rudder axis.
I just remembered that I have an unused analogue hat/micro stick on the Ch throttle. It’s actually really nice for rudder.
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Sorry guys for a stoopid question of opinion and not a question that can be answered with hard fact.
Currently I have a plain old joystick for FSX and any non-uber serious flying games, a mad catz F.L.Y. 5. It’s great for non-BMS, and “fine” for BMS, but I’ll never get good enough at BMS with it to fully enjoy the potential of the game nor rise to the level where I can join online.
So my question is, can I get by with something like the TFlight HOTAS X entry level or do I really really need a Warthog HOTAS.
I get it that the Warthog is better - metal, heavy, “real” feeling", but is it actually $700 better?
Is BMS something that one really needs to be paying $800 for a joystick to play? A sport wherein if you have to ask, you can’t afford entry?
I don’t want to suck, but I don’t want to spend $800 bucks, either. Thoughts?By the way, were I to get the warthog, will it require as much tweaking as the tflght hotas X anyway (because the warthog was built for DCS and not BMS)?
Firstly, K, Welcome!
It’s not a stupid question, and you definitely do NOT need a Warthog to enjoy BMS. I would say,however, that a good HOTAS (ie: one with adequate buttons) will add to your enjoyment. I just looked on EBay and found several listings for <$150. Saitek x-52 is popular,x-56 is good(X-55 is better), and I’ve heard good things about the Thrustmaster T-flight.
Basically, get the stick that’s comfortable for your budget, get the Alternate Launcher to program it, and join the party! -
Got my Logitech X56 (grey one) in July 2019. Use it almost every day. Has plenty of buttons/switches for BMS. Zero complaints.
How many hats on that combo (the x56)?
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3 hats on the stick, 2 4-ways, two knobs, and a microstick on the throttle, plus tons of extra switches and knobs on the throttle base. Only thing BMS doesn’t play nice with is the extra ministick on the Stick, and a 3-way slider on the throttle. I could use something like joystick gremlin to create a virtual controller. But as I mentioned, there is plenty to be bound
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I used the T.Flight Hotas X. I think it’s ok as a stick, but it has too few buttons (no problem for WWII sims, but it’s not very useful for modern jets). I could barely get the most important stuff mapped (with headtracking). It wasn’t great, but it worked.
I then switched to a used Saitek X65F and it’s so much better now (it’s SUPER AWESOME, but also russian roulette - my one had several issues, I could solve all of them, but if you buy one, you might not be able to fix everything).I have no experience with it, but I’d recommend the X52. It allows you to map everything with only few shifted functions (CMS and trim). However, you’ll lose the twist rudder or the throttle slider axis when enabling the microstick axes, so either you’ll fly rudderless (or get pedals), use zones for cursor control (usually not recommended, but worth trying) or if you choose to lose the slider axis (probably the best solution), you can still use it for zones (DGFT/MRM switch).
The X56 has even more buttons (important if you fly the DCS A-10), which allows you to map everything without shifting, but also costs more. It has no throttle detents.
Also, get headtrcking. There’s a free (Android) app out there that allows you to use your phone as headtracker (you need to strap your phone to your head).
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It’s probably the best idea to sacrifice the slider axis, as you can still use it for the mastermode switch.