Unsolved Players Eyeposition in the 3D Cockpit - POV
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Hey Guys,
please understand, that I’m well aware of, that this topic in general is not a new one and has been discussed on these forums several times. Though not with a finite/definite statement about the facts IMHO and also not after VR got implemented.
I’d be really happy, if you can give me a minute to explain, what I’m looking forWith the newly implemented VR feature BMS is even more a blast and joy than ever before and I’m very thankfull for that. After several hours flying the new release I came to a conclusion, that the positioning of the players eyes in the 3D cockpit (POV) might be a little bit off.
I extensivly searched the forum for older posts regarding similar thoughts/requests and discussions and found myself not satisfied, because the old threads only discuss, that the rotation of the view should be altered or someone wants a higher or lower POV in the 3D Cockpit.
There are two common answers in these threads:- Adjust your view by leaning around and recenter
- The POV is correct in relation to the HUD
Also another answer pops up from time to time:
The POV cannot be changed unless the actual model of the cockpit is edited.Now I want to split my topic into two sections, first I want to explain, why I think the POV might be off indeed and then in the following section I have some questions regarding possible solutions.
What do I think is off and by how much?
The POV in the BMS 3D cockpit can move on three axis (rotation is not discussed, as I think it is perfectly fine):
x: from left to right
y: from front to back
z: from up to down
I’m absolutely with the guys, that gave answer number 2 from above in earlier threads discussing this topic, the POV is correct in relation the the HUD - with one exception, the y-axis.
X-axis is correct obviously, as its centered like it should be. Z-Axis is correct as well, as there is even documentation, where the F-16 pilots eye level should be height-wise to have a good and “airworthy” view trough the HUD.
The y-axis on the other hand is not correctly positioned in BMS.
During my research to find a way to change the POV by altering a specific config file etc., I often read that there was no way of altering the POV without editing the actual model. I even tried to do that (unwrapping 3d database, LOD Editor…) and found the cockpit model in the Editor which comes with stock BMS (green icon).
I think the 3D model I found there is very good proof, that my point might be valid. You can show the anchor point of the camera for each model in the model viewer of the editor, which is the POV in the case of the cockpit model.
Thats a great way of visualizing all three axis of the POV and that the y-axis position of the POV is too far back - which brings some problems I want to discuss later.
To find the correct y-axis position of the POV I jumped into my 1:1 scale simulator cockpit and refferenced my eyeposition on the y-axis of the reallife POV.
See the picture below to see the difference, blue being BMS and green being the real cockpit.
That is how I came to the conclusion that the POV in the BMS 3D cockpit might not be the correct one regarding the position on the y-axis.
Almost not noticeable for anybody flying on a 2D monitor, it unfortunately makes a huge difference in VR. There are several problems arising with the POV being too far aft.
First please let me clearly say, that recentering the HMD while going back with your head a bit is absolutely no option I want and even could use - I have no 6DOF tracking and even if I had, I simply cannot press my head into the ACES II headrest behind me.
I see two main problems while using VR with a wrong POV, first of all it is harder to read text/symbols in the MFDs or identify objects in the camera of the TGP when your head is positioned further away from these elements than it should be. Then the correlation between the virtual cockpit and the real cockpit is wrong. I can state that this is absolutely true for the current POV, as I tested that with dozens of different world scale settings to find a sweetspot, but there was none. A example: I set up the worldscale in SteamVR, that my real ICP exactly matches the 3D ICP in the 3D cockpit, then I turned left and reached for the PROBE HEAT switch on the TEST panel in VR, I held the IFF MASTER knob between my fingers.
I think, that if the POV was more forward, that the SteamVR worldscale would not be needed, because the cockpit would feel exaclty right sized then.Now I want to conclude with the questions I have for you all guys:
Is there a config file which can be edited to move the POVs position on the y-axis? I tried “PilotEyePos” in the f16-cm-50.dat in the acdata, but that had no effect.
If there is a way to change that, where can I find the corresponding file/line?If there is really no way to change that with a config file, can editing the 3D model of the cockpit move the POV on the y-axis?
I tried to open the LOD from parent 888 with the LOD Editor, but it always crashes. I can view it with the LOD Editor though - even installed 4.33 to make the LOD Editor start up.
If editing the 3D modell would help, can maybe someone with the skills help me doing that?Thank you very much for your time reading!
Looking forward to your valuable input guys -
@Korbi I would tell you also from Quest 2, to Reverb G2, and especially all of the different settings you and I have been playing with with the Pimax they seem like they all differ a little in viewpoint and I think it is resolution tied. Of course there has been discussion in the cockpit scaling threads too, but I think maybe the U1 addition @chihirobelmo mentioned in your Pimax settings thread with VR resolutions maybe be something that fixes some this. Also it wouldn’t surprise me if BMS adds an eyepoint adjustment similar to that other sim But yes, the physical MFDs and ICPs have been what I’ve been using and my successful for me look under mods allow a quick estimate. Quest 2 seems about on, Reverb G2 maybe a little close, and it really depends on all the Pimax settings but those feel the most off.
I would also say that the scaling we have been using in 2d monitors is usually pretty off to either fit a lot of information on a small screen or make details more visible on a big screen, so I think some people are just now getting a taste of how relatively small and a little tight the F-16 cockpit is
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Maybe your problem comes from the followig thing: I did a research about proper FOV for my monitor and view distance. Maybe what you are talking about is that on a 2D monitor there is only one point from where you see the 3D space. In VR there is your two eyes. So in the single point view case you must move back the point of view to achive the same FOV.
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The distance what you are searching for is marked with the blue arrow:
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@Korbi said in Players Eyeposition in the 3D Cockpit - POV:
The y-axis on the other hand is not correctly positioned in BMS.
I don’t know but I tend to agree, mainly because it allows me to see more of the HUD without edges/corners getting clipped, and also see forward over the nose of the aircraft slightly better.
I mostly fly mouselook, so my head position remains fixed unless I use middle-button to move x/y, or raise/lower the seat.
I found moving about 4-5 “virtual inches” forward, and then adjusting seat down about an inch, very slightly, to restore the “green circle” AOA indicator to be -12.5 degrees below gun cross, worked great – I don’t know if that’s proper or not, but that aspect of the default head position seems right to me.
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Regarding not being able to press your head back to recentre and move the view point - a small trick I’ve learnt is to NOT press your head back. Tilt your head up (ie look up above the hud) and recentre. The tilt position doesn’t move - you’ll still have the same vertical pov but you will be closer to the HuD.
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