Su flight model please
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beside, have we got PS curves ?
have we got CD (alpha,mach) ?
have we got thrust curves (including ram drag) ?
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@A.S:
While PM-ing you i just quick searched the net and stumbled over two pics
I know, nothing detailed, but i found it interesting to see them both in comparision like that.I knew that these diagrams will be sooner or later. They are not true, or shall we say adequate, but with some reservations only for a particular case. no details
Just compare with the graph of the flight manual, and everything becomes clear. -
Well, i can send you what i have, but that russian …so, alot of translate and “reconstruct missing data” work i guess…
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@OSD:
I knew that these diagrams will be sooner or later. They are not true, or shall we say adequate, but with some reservations only for a particular case. no details
Just compare with the graph of the flight manual, and everything becomes clear.I knew soon or later each time you post something like that one is to show up and argue :)… but honestly…i give a flying f### …i havent made those curves.
Just found it on net. But i agree, going more in “relyable” data and comparing them would be wise. -
Be patient, I will answer and explain something. I can not answer all at once
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@A.S:
I knew soon or later each time you post something like that one is to show up and argue :)… but honestly…i give a flying f### …i havent made those curves.
Just found it on net. But i agree, going more in “relyable” data and comparing them would be wise.it is always the same story guys :
- Are the mass same on both Diagram ?
- what is the Drag Index ?
- standard atmosphere the same ?
And finally , as performance are still classified, i dont trust really propaganda (US or RUSSIAN the same !! )
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1,2 and 3 …logic.
But for 4…agree, realitycheck is a smart thing to do -
it is always the same story guys :
- Are the mass same on both Diagram ?
- what is the Drag Index ?
- standard atmosphere the same ?
And finally , as performance are still classified, i dont trust really propaganda (US or RUSSIAN the same !! )
everything is much easier this is supposedly confidential methodological manual
miraculously snared much earlier than the flight manual for export version Su-27
it’s the same confidential methodicsLook at the weight and Cl max
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Many agents have died to share this information.
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@OSD:
everything is much easier this is supposedly confidential methodological manual
miraculously snared much earlier than the flight manual for export version Su-27
it’s the same confidential methodicsLook at the weight and Cl max
All those information are FAR to much incomplete, not specific and not reliable.
Before even thinking of working seriously we need and not only 3 points
Gs vs Mach at various altitude
Or complete CL ( alpha,Mach)
Or turn rate (Mach, alt)CD (alpha,Mach)
Or PS curvesThrust (Mach,alt) curves
Possibly accel and decel curves
Everything with proper weight, atmosphere and drag index
Without all of this a FM would be as wrong as another
JP
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could you tell me what is the difference between chart a) and b) in you second picture ? would you thanslate the whole text ?
chart a) Its a table
text
Characteristics of stability and controllability of the aircraft without the suspension and with all types of missiles (A-A missiles) stored acceptable to angles of attack:
a) For airplanes with no suspensions or A-A missiles:M - Mach number
α доп - AOA limited be control system. The Su-27 has a system for limiting the angle of attack depending on the Mach number, AOA, G. the system can be switched off.
су доп. means CL - maximum value of CL realized when the angle of attack. The system of limitation is on.
For example at M=0.5 The system of limitation restricts access to the angle of attack of more than 24 degrees with AOA = 24 degrees maximum value of Cl = 1.85b) For airplanes with bombs up to 4000 kg or unguided rockets:
third attachment file 4.jpg
Cl chart
axis Y - Cl (balanced airplane, the results of flight tests )
axis X - AOA degrees
M - Mach number
Cl values for a range of M 0.3-0.8 marked to the left of the axis Y
Cl values for a range of M 1.2 marked to the right of the axis Y -
break, then write the answer in PM
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@OSD:
OMG, facepalm.
Shadow
I wrote to you, that you can not take the data separately. Separate Cl from CD and so on.
understand one simple thing that CL is inextricably linked to CD. Cd with Trust. but you choose your own way.
please take away of your FM mention about me, I do not want to have nothing in common with it
and buy a textbook on aerodynamicsOSD I thank you for you informative and constructive comments.
I don’t remember you writing to me so I checked PM back to 25th Feb 12 & now understand a little better what you were saying.
As I don’t claim to be a aeronautical engineer I still endeavored to increaser my understanding of FM & encourage interestrest in Red side weapons & airframes
While I used your drag data as a references for my edits I apologizes for not using you lift figures, it was a long time ago, febuary.
In conclusian I started this as a personal learning interest as well as trying to keep a ballence in Red/Blue in our local engagements.
So if I can help you with the facepalm I would be more then happy.
Again thanks for all your help……Shad … no smiley
PS: I will change the credits & did you ever bother to fly the FM or are you just a forum person??
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OSD I thank you for you informative and constructive comments.
I don’t remember you writing to me so I checked PM back to 25th Feb 12 & now understand a little better what you were saying.
As I don’t claim to be a aeronautical engineer I still endeavored to increaser my understanding of FM & encourage interestrest in Red side weapons & airframes
While I used your drag data as a references for my edits I apologizes for not using you lift figures, it was a long time ago, febuary.
In conclusian I started this as a personal learning interest as well as trying to keep a ballence in Red/Blue in our local engagements.
So if I can help you with the facepalm I would be more then happy.
Again thanks for all your help……Shad … no smiley
PS: I will change the credits & did you ever bother to fly the FM or are you just a forum person??
Talking about text books, any suggestion for an ‘easy’ primer on the subject ?
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I have tried to use closer to “RL” drag/lift data as derived by other but it does not produce as “smooth” preformance as my previous.
It still needed to be modified around the edges, thats the only way I could get “supermaneuverability” to work.
PS Ill try to get some Fraps up soon. And its still awork in progress.
AFM is 70% done.
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And for those who have pointed out that the MKK is not equipped with thrust vector.
Your stating the obvious, these things I know and have spent many hundreds of hours getting this far… The MKI does not exist in any current campaigns the MKK does so it is my current platform for testing in online MP campaign (RL), not only performance runs. My FM is generic SU-30/33 and can/will be tweakeded for 27/30MKK/MKI/MK/33/35 etc, it remains a proof of concept that “supermaneuverabilityty” is possiblele in the Falcon/BMS Sim.
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it remains a proof of concept that “supermaneuverabilityty” is possiblele in the Falcon/BMS Sim.
??? That was already proved with the Harrier and Raptor in previous versions of Falcon……
RAM22
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Thanks Ram for your informative and usefully post.
Your attention to detail is just the key I needed to tweek those lift/drag relationships.
Im just a simple Electrical contractor with some engineering qualification trying to enjoy my remaining time.
So if your got something usefull or want to test fly it, that would be great.
Thanks ……Shad
PS: the point was can I get it to do what the real SU does or even close enough. And I have:munch: