Climb from takeoff

[Babite]

So I’ve been trying to watch the AI closely to figure out their behavior for when I decide to take ship 1 in my offline adventures with them. Heres what I’ve noticed:

The AI DO NOT FOLLOW taxi rules, when you pass the correct point in the threshold as 1 they hit the stop on their throttle while I’m getting into position on the runway

I’ve had multiple near collisions on the ground with the AI, sometimes I’ve lost an AC because they ran into me

While we have rules to follow re:airspace the TOWER and AI don’t care, they don’t play by our rules

I haven’t figured out the initial climb rate that they use, but I’ve noticed they don’t give much angle while ascending, maybe 2.5-4* on the pitch ladder

They don’t change their altimeters for transition altitude, but they do pay attention to the current QNH supplied by your local airfield

I’ve yet to figure out where they want me in a 4 ship when they say go spread, I try to get the distances from the other 3 to figure out the spacing they’re using but I never seem to get into position correctly & when I’m 3 I’ve seen 4 trailing to the right rear of 1 & 2…about 2 nautical miles back & more than 20* from being in line

I know, the AI aren’t close to perfect, but I wanted to share my findings so IF you ever try to wrap your heads around what those pesky AI are up to you can plan a flight & know where to expect them when you aren’t lead-I know, a no-no.

What do you guys use for climbing procedures? I know the checklist manual says to get to speed x or Mach #, whichever is slower, and climb to your altitude, and you’ve also got to account for departure procedures from your airfield and not screw up another fields traffic pattern while on your way out.

I still can’t join a V squadron so I’d like to hear what you guys do in general for the mundane airspace flow

[Frederf]

I do not understand the wording about AI taxi. Please say what is happening clearly. If you take up the proper lineup spot on the runway the AI will be diagonal for you and then wait for you to roll and then takeoff at 4 second intervals.

AI adopt the initial takeoff attitude to 200’ AAL and then a restricted turn (30°) until the entire flight is airborne and then normal 2G turns thereafter. AI cancel burner at 300 KIAS and continue 325 KIAS or up to 150 knots overtake if rejoining or faster depending on DTOT.

For climb I tend to approximate the speed/mach schedule given by the flight manual. I estimate my drag index on a range from super skinny to super fat. BARCAP load is probably drag index 100-150 so I put it in the middle of the 0-400 drag index range of 480KIAS-350KIAS climb speeds. For example 400 and then M0.78 wouldn’t be too off for that load. Of course this average speed is higher than to hit DTOT for STPT2 so I try not to let the speed caret get below 220-250 KIAS. No point in getting there too early and then having to circle for minutes. Most people climb much too slowly (caret). This usually works out to a climb at 5° FPA shrinking to 2-3° at altitude in practice. This is so predictable that many pilots just climb 5° as a good approximation.

[Amraam]

My climb depend of the load and of the mood of the day :p. Sometimes I do iso-mach climb like Fred explain. Sometimes a standard climb at 350kts, sometimes (mostly in air to air config) a combat departure. For the last one, it permit to climb VERY quickly to 10.000 ft and then, continue to climb gently to your flight level.

[Arty]

IIRC WDP has the patern and it goes along with the loadout u have and the stpt altitute you must have.

[SLangner]

I daresay the climb schedule the AI pilots use depends on where you are in the formation. If you’re the lead, they’ll follow you. If you’re not the lead, they will follow what’s programmed by the development people.

[Ironman53rd]

they will follow what’s programmed by the development people

What the AIO’s are not real ??? OMG now I can stop feeling guilty when I shoot the useless ba$tards down !!!

[Dee-Jay]

@Babite:

They don’t change their altimeters for transition altitude, but they do pay attention to the current QNH supplied by your local airfield

Known and rather “normal”. AI do never switch to 29.92 (1013, they keep the local QNH anytime/anywhere. And it is not too bad since, for combat, fighters keeps the Force QNH (usually given by AWACS).

I haven’t figured out the initial climb rate that they use, but I’ve noticed they don’t give much angle while ascending, maybe 2.5-4* on the pitch ladder

Known … and it leads into many problems. This is why climb routine has been rewritten in the future version.

[Dee-Jay]

@Babite:

What do you guys use for climbing procedures?

… but most of the time, I use 350kts/M0.6 for climb.

[Babite]

Frederf: When I take lead of the element my wingie should be ~45* off my sholder. I’ve watched the AI lead move onto the touchdown zone marking one side or the other, as I approach a certain point on that same runway touchdown zone marking while I’m lead my wingman will go max afterburner without reguard to my speed or intentions.

Arty: You are correct about WDP having a performance listing for climbing on the performance tab for BOTH Mil climb & Max AB climb

Dee-Jay: Good to hear that they’ll start falling into line eventually

[Frederf]

@Bab, here’s more or less how it should look

There are plenty of technique errors in this video but it at least shows the line up, looking over at wingman halted (really just a very very very slow roll) in the normal 2-ship 4-second interval takeoff AI procedure.

Once you “trigger” AI takeoff he will go for broke so don’t trigger him except for your own AB style takeoff. Maybe you are going too far down the runway, too fast, or lineup on wrong side.

The MIL climb schedule is exactly the same as the CRUS HOME profile assuming the home point is far enough away that it doesn’t tell you to descend. If you want to see what it looks like, highlight the CRUS HOME option on the DED for a distant home point and follow the caret to best cruise or whatever tactical level below that. MIL climb is a “best specific fuel range climb” designed to best convert JP8 into distance and altitude. If fuel is tight then this is the best option. If you have to add energy that’s MAX AB climb which to my simplification is just pitch for Mach 0.9 to maximize Ps (energy add rate). Tactically your fuel use, being on schedule, self protection, checking in requirements may have you do something totally different. There are no medals awarded for being shot down while doing best endurance speed in a hold.