TFR Checklist
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Hi all, just got my computer back and started to fly 4.33 again. Working with the manual now on the TFR usage in-flight, just a question or two. The in-flight FLIR check goes easy but the next checks seem rather long, if you do a straight VFR departure I can see enough time to complete all checks, auto fly up check and swim check. But if you fly a SID to the Dept. Pt. how do you run these checks. The next possible place would be entering Low Level when your attention is divided in many ways, I’m sure in the real world they run these checks but where and when be nice to know. Are there a few short cuts that will expedite the process, the checklist is rather long. Has anyone tried to do this in flight on a nite Mission and how did it work out?
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We do it everytime we have to use the TFR
We plan our mission to have enough distance between stpt 1-2-3 to make the full checks
but we never do that witin a SIDWe depart visual and stay Under the weather (if there is significant weather) to make the checks
Once confidence level in the TFR are high, then we put it in STBY and climb for hi lo hi profile -
Do you do it one at a time (4 ship flight) or everybody at once, using kind of a check in system? One starting, One complete, two starting, two complete…. sort of a thing. Altitude spacing and distance spacing or do you use a train formation for separation?
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Military flight in ops do not fly SID like the one published for civilian traffic. Most of the time departure are ground radar monitored omnidirectional climb with no SID to fly.
TFR is taking time, and it is a well prepared flight. No place for improvisation.
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We fly it usually in trail formation. Every member of the flight does its check on his own (basically all together in trail) and then we form our flight at a prebriefed steerpoint where all members should have completed their checks
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Hi Red Dog, been working the TFR checklist and Low Level flight, attempting to release weapons is a little tricky to say the least. I have two questions for you. One, every time I run the checklist sometimes during the check or at Low Level I get a PFL indication of “AV” can’t find what it means or what I’m doing wrong or what it stands for? Sometimes it seems to clear with a FLCAS reset I’ve seen it clear once or twice by F ACK reset (I believe). So I must be causing this but what it means or how to resolve it inflight is a guess, can you shed some light on this indication and what I might be doing wrong that is causing this indication. Two, While at LL what is your MFD set up? I understand that FLIR is not needed so it is only on the DA line so not the problem, but the chose of systems are confusing. I usually leave TFR scope on right MFD to monitor, now DA buttons TFR, TGP, SMS, on the right, DA buttons I have on the left MFD FLIR, HSD,FCR. But for enroute flight what are you displaying? The RT MFD has TFR up to monitor to the IP then switch to TGP the left is set to the HSD to monitor position. At the IP I exit TFR (Norm to STBY) select TGP and the left I select FCR (GM Mode) Is there a better setup? You might ask why I exit TFR, it is so I don’t run into weapon clearance problems or am I over thinking this.
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One, every time I run the checklist sometimes during the check or at Low Level I get a PFL indication of “AV” can’t find what it means or what I’m doing wrong or what it stands for? Sometimes it seems to clear with a FLCAS reset I’ve seen it clear once or twice by F ACK reset (I believe). So I must be causing this but what it means or how to resolve it inflight is a guess, can you shed some light on this indication and what I might be doing wrong that is causing this indication.
First one thing that you can easily forget is to set the Manual Fly up switch to enable (FLCP)
Do you get that Av PFLD after a fly up that you didn’t cancel in time?
Do you have a TF FAIL warning light?
Need more info as to when it happens?
Might also happen during the RALT bit of the TFR checksTwo, While at LL what is your MFD set up? I understand that FLIR is not needed so it is only on the DA line so not the problem, but the chose of systems are confusing. I usually leave TFR scope on right MFD to monitor, now DA buttons TFR, TGP, SMS, on the right, DA buttons I have on the left MFD FLIR, HSD,FCR. But for enroute flight what are you displaying? The RT MFD has TFR up to monitor to the IP then switch to TGP the left is set to the HSD to monitor position. At the IP I exit TFR (Norm to STBY) select TGP and the left I select FCR (GM Mode) Is there a better setup? You might ask why I exit TFR, it is so I don’t run into weapon clearance problems or am I over thinking this.
To be honest, unless in very specific cases, I cancel TFR for the bomb release as well. Unless the situation don’t let me do it, but such release is indeed quite demanding.
I usually ingress in MRM. So FCR on left MFD, TGP on right (ID) but in low level ingress I have the TFR on the right MFDs with HSD and TGP there as well
At Ip I switch AG mastermode with another set of MFDs. AGR left and TGP & HSP right & SMS. In such cases, TFR is usually on the left MFD with the radar and FLIR -
Hi Red Dog first I set the Manual fly up after BIT test on ground CKlist engine start so not the problem, Not sure about “Canx FLY up in time” what that means since I don’t know what you mean by that it may be the problem. No TF Fail warning light, “AV” lite stays on during low level run doesn’t seem to effect any equipment running, using Advance mode during low level. If I manage to get the AV lite out by chance it’s not noticed during RALT BIT check in SWIM portion of checks. I guess your crystal ball is not going to get it this time.
I take it the low level and bomb run set up (for MFD) is not standard and it is what is comfortable, Must the TFR be monitored at all time when it is on or what? can it kill you with out prior notification or will all the whistle and bells go off
Bye the bye The only Fly ups I have Canx was due to bad weather incursion during low level, I hit the WX btn, paddle sw engaged and head to SCP, I must still have a few misunderstandings about TFR have review chapter again. But still like to know what “AV” means in terms of equipment degradation if any. Is it critical or minor problem is it a advance mode item or manual mode item or across the board.
I will try to monitor when it come on and maybe you can help solve my present problemJust flew TFR mission and got “AV lite”. During Inflight TFR test (AutoTF) checklist. At the pushover to 900 feet I got the aural message at 780 feet got pull up command started by TFR computer, paddle switch in pushover to level got AV lite indication level at SCP. Got Master caution, PFL full, reset PFL/F ACK all lites out but AV lite. My reaction time to the 2g pull up may have been slow, All the noise Betty was making and scanning instruments, is this the fly up failure to canx in time you mean? If so the question remains what does AV stand for (related systems/problems) and can you expect this only in manual TF mode. And how do you get rid of it?
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If you have a AV indication on the PFL, you have a avionics fault that has been acknowledged. Press the F-ACK once more so the fault is recalled. Tell us now what you see on the FPL.
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My bet (read crystal ball) is on the OverG (SMS STA DEGR or FAIL) of the jet trying to fight a flyup with no paddle switch
Happened to me quite often as well. Especially with weather coming in and being late hitting the WX button.
Sometimes all goes very fast and when you see that TFR flying up right into a SAM envelope you fight it and overG (negG) -
Red Dog, Leech After flying several more missions and getting faster at canx fly up with paddle switch the AV fault is not occurring as often, last nite mission, all was well and I ran into weather and I was slow to recognize it, looking at the HUD, Fly up started, aural pull up started. First looked at airspeed then TFR scope, determined it was rain causing pull up, selected WX, paddle sw in, controlled fly up, looked down and “AV” lite was on. So both of you guys are right a late response to engaging the paddle sw during commanded fly up will cause the “AV” lite to come on and flying into weather again a slow response to canx fly up is causing the “AV” lite to come on. Does that make sense? Leech I will give it a try on a second press of the F ACK and let you know what I see on PFL.
I had a college professor who use to say “there are no dumb questions, only dumb people” so here it goes. I understand Auto TF, but since I try to fly in real time hard to determine the following, so when in manual TF or blend TF (not tried yet) is the computer controlling the level flight to SCP or is it my inputs to the system in other words who is flying the dam airplane? Are control inputs recognized with out the paddle switch engaged when in manual TF or blended TF. To many hours flying Terrain Avoidance radar I guess, I think I know the answer but just need a tad of clarification.