Crosswind landings
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Been having problems with these. When practicing half the time i seem to… i guess luckily land- mainly due to the wind dying down just as i come into land, but when the wind is blowing, especially at 25+ kts and my a/c nose is pointing away from the runway, as i touch down (with fpm in middle of AoA bracket, and on or near enough to 2.5 degree dashed line) my a/c seems to wobble side to side and then a wing or something hits the runway and thats that. What is it i need to do? i watched a video of a crosswind landing done by someone on you tube and i think he says that he applies full left/right rudder as he touches down relative to counter the wind, is this what i need to do?
Thought i’d also add that i know some people will say the falcon cant land in excess of 25 kt crosswind. Which is totally true as when i came into land on one occasion, i was about to flare and ATC called and told me to execute a missed approach but i ignored them and ended up smashing into the runway. This was due to the wind getting up to 30 kts as i was about 100 feet off the runway and about to flare.
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I like to make crosswind landings with my HUD caged - DRIFT C/O selected - but I could see where this might get in the way if you are landing as a section…which you shouldn’t be doing in a crosswind situation anyway…
This way I can hold slip to the touchdown point and then kick my nose out using rudder during rollout while maintaining a more true sight picture of my line down the runway. Don’t go lax on the ailerons until you are out of the cross-breeze.
I’ve never encountered a crosswind that required full rudder, and if I did I’d probably start thinking of my divert field.
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Gotta kick that rudder just prior to touchdown. Bring the nose straight down the center line on touchdown. You don’t need full rudder all the time. It depends on the crosswind component of the wind. I’m not sure about in the Viper, but in small general aviation a/c you need to touchdown on the upwind wheel first. This will anchor the a/c to the ground.
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Out of 6 attempts at the 4.32 crosswind landing TE i landed 4 times. The last time i failed as there was ridiculous turbulence right from about roughly quarter of a mile out to touchdown. Was constantly pulling back and forth on the throttle as my fpm was dipping sharply and then when the turbulence passed, it would shoot back up due to the excess speed so would brake, throttle to idle…and then whoosh more turbulence. But its’ different every time…i think this crosswind landing TE is pretty much the worst landing conditions i could possibly come across for any TE or campaign flight. So its good in that if i can master landing in these conditions every time then i should never have problems landing.
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Gotta kick that rudder just prior to touchdown.
Common mistake. Fly a wings level crabbed approach all the way to touchdown then use rudder to track centerline and flaperon into the wind as required to counter the tendency to roll until airspeed decays.
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Common mistake. Fly a wings level crabbed approach all the way to touchdown then use rudder to track centerline and flaperon into the wind as required to counter the tendency to roll until airspeed decays.
So what you’re saying is on touchdown, if the wind is blowing from right to left then rudder right to counter the wind?
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Sort of. If the wind is blowing right to left you will tend to “drift” after touchdown. The wings also have a tendency to roll left as well and you’ll need to counter that by “rolling” your wings to the right to maintain a wings level 13 degrees AOA two-point aerodynamic braking “stance.” Simultaneously you would use rudder as needed to maintain runway centerline.
It’s not unlike a ballet maneuver…it takes practice and finesse.
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Procedure for crosswind is to remain crabbed, no rudder.
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Procedure for crosswind is to remain crabbed, no rudder.
What exactly do you mean by crabbed?
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What exactly do you mean by crabbed?
Dont touch rudder at all during landing according to real f16 manual. No kick out or anything. Put the fpm on the runway on approach, the plane will end up flying sideways towards it, this is the crab. Dont kick out at touchdown according to real manual either. Theres been long threads before on this. Dont land it like a cessna, theres lots of reasons such as the aileron rudder interconnect and the weight on wheels sensor behavior.
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What exactly do you mean by crabbed?
Let the plane weathervane into the wind. Rudder not recommended due to aileron-rudder interconnect.
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Good information. thank you
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Let the plane weathervane into the wind. Rudder not recommended due to aileron-rudder interconnect.
Yea i never use rudder in the air, only on the ground with NWS but in this case, from certain advice i should use the rudder (without NWS) when i touchdown to counter the wind. With weathervane yea i have to do that just so that i’m lined up with the runway. I keep the fpm on the runway by pointing the nose in the direction of where the wind is blowing from. I would say what really makes this hard is the erratic turbulence and change in wind direction, really throws me off.
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Then do what a Pilot would do: kick in the burners and fly a missed approach, often better than doing a “sledgehammer approach” and smashing your jet in pieces on the tarmac.
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Then do what a Pilot would do: kick in the burners and fly a missed approach, often better than doing a “sledgehammer approach” and smashing your jet in pieces on the tarmac.
I will most certainly do this in the campaign, just thought i’d try landing still as i was just practicing. When i’m about to flare in the campaign and the wind gets above 25 kts i’ll fly a missed approach, or if the turbulence goes nuts.
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never use rudder to decrab and if your ac wobbles too hard this is because your descent rate is too high and you touched too hard
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never use rudder to decrab and if your ac wobbles too hard this is because your descent rate is too high and you touched too hard
I guess but without crosswinds i’ve landed at a descent angle above 2.5 degrees (or should i say below?) and havent wobbled, so must be the wind factor combined with the steep descent thats’ doing it and whats’ causing these steep angles on flare is the turbulence knocking me about and messing up my descent angle. So yep…in that case i’d have to fly a missed approach. Bloody turbulence lol.
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I guess but without crosswinds i’ve landed at a descent angle above 2.5 degrees (or should i say below?) and havent wobbled, so must be the wind factor combined with the steep descent thats’ doing it and whats’ causing these steep angles on flare is the turbulence knocking me about and messing up my descent angle. So yep…in that case i’d have to fly a missed approach. Bloody turbulence lol.
2.5 degree is a slope i am talking about decent rate
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2.5 degree is a slope i am talking about decent rate
Ah yea got mixed up with that, but thought the two are related seeing as the steeper the descent pitch the higher the descent rate? mixed with airspeed too?
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Always make sure your descent rate equals your forward speed multiplied by the sine of your flight path angle. If it doesn’t, the consequences are more severe than you can imagine.
Anyway, as stated above you want a wings level crab such that your ground track aligns with the runway. Both wheels touch simultaneously and the plane straightens out by ground contact before nose wheel touchdown. The FLCS behavior changes sharply on ground contact with regards to rudder input which is why large pilot input of rudder on touchdown is not recommended.
I find the F-16 extremely sensitive to main gear touchdown simultaneity with only slightly less sensitivity to vertical rate. The oleos are stiff and result in a bounce at larger rates including upsets with lateral asymmetry. Timing the flare in crosswind is complicated by the fact as the airplane slows in the flare the crab angle to maintain track changes (increases). A slight drift upwind at the initiation of the flare should result in the canceling of the lateral drift during the flare.