[AGM-65] How to hit my GMT's?
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If someone asked me yesterday if excessive Maverick video on time was modeled in BMS I would have said no. So I’ll ask for it to be said clearly. Is there any actual difference in BMS between Maverick running for 5 minutes or 50?
Osmeen, hard to say without ACMI/video. The difference between a good and poor track are quite subtle. I’m a little concerned about all this boresighting talk as it has nothing to do with missile track quality.
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how may I make an ACMI/video?
once done with handoff process then Mavericks should hit 100% if fired under good conditions. Yet they still miss, in fact the cross keeps blinking and I cannot make it stop blinking even if the steering is made to keep the cross well within the “keyhole”.
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The AVTR switch on the left console to ON. It’ll make a .vhs file (or many if you leave it on the default 20 MB setting) which are kinda big. Running them through Tacview shrinks it.
Shooting with a flashing pointing cross is a no-go. I think to the 30-30-30 rule, keyhole, that kind of thing. 30 degrees off bore, 30 degrees bank change since lock on, 30 degree per second roll rate.
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yes like I said the cross was well within the Maverick’s limit yet it never stopped flashing. It kept flashing from 15nm to 1nm at an altitude of ~8000fts. Other times it stopped flashing and went steady but when fired juts fell like a rock
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Was it commanded to track and successfully track? The only real positive indicator I’ve found for the missile tracking is the BSGT label on the MFD. An unlocked Maverick looks indistinguishable from a locked one if one was to obscure just this very lablel.
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the four Mavericks were taken through handoff process perfectly. Then I turned off the power and flew to the target. At the target when I use the TG Pod for designation then I don’t need to go to the Maverick page because it is bore sighted, and the TG will handoff any designated target to the missile. I could also see the letter C above the selected missile which means boresight is complete. Yet when fired well within range the first ones must miss but the other ones will not. The flashing cross is another problem, it just keeps flashing no matter how I orient the plane. I really think this is an indication of a bug which is not surprising given how complicated Mavericks are meant to be in this update.
Edit: OK I found out that the miss and the flashing is related to altitude. I was at 3000 and the Maverick apparently needs to be pointed into the target, Maverick does not like to be fired like GBU in CCRP. I did the mission twice without a miss so that must have been it. AT 8000 it wordek
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Good job! Now, practice the procedure. Soon, muscle memory will be such that little thought will be required.
Then congratulate yourself for learning probably the most difficult weapon deployment the Sim requires…
…and squashing that invisible bug…You will appreciate launching at much higher altitudes, when you find yourself taking fire from AK-47s and man-pak missiles
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the four Mavericks were taken through handoff process perfectly. Then I turned off the power and flew to the target. At the target when I use the TG Pod for designation then I don’t need to go to the Maverick page because it is bore sighted, and the TG will handoff any designated target to the missile. I could also see the letter C above the selected missile which means boresight is complete. Yet when fired well within range the first ones must miss but the other ones will not. The flashing cross is another problem, it just keeps flashing no matter how I orient the plane. I really think this is an indication of a bug which is not surprising given how complicated Mavericks are meant to be in this update.
Edit: OK I found out that the miss and the flashing is related to altitude. I was at 3000 and the Maverick apparently needs to be pointed into the target, Maverick does not like to be fired like GBU in CCRP. I did the mission twice without a miss so that must have been it. AT 8000 it wordek
Altitude has NOTHING to do with anything, if everything is good and you still get a flashing cross then you simply need to move the FOV to NARROW. As a general rule, Mavs MUST be fired with the WPN screen in NARROW FOV, always.
Here is a vid I took not so long ago for some other “Maverick missing” thread, and you can see I hit 8 out of 8 in a single pass and even I was without my HOTAS connected… I did 3 cycles until I took the final vid and in all 3 cycles I got 8 out of 8 hits so there in no randomness of any kind here, maybe I should add some, Will see…
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the above youtube obviously did not involve the handoff procedure so its not the same thing. With handoff you use the TG Pod to designate targets and do not even have to make the Mav page the SOI.
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the above youtube obviously did not involve the handoff procedure so its not the same thing. With handoff you use the TG Pod to designate targets and do not even have to make the Mav page the SOI.
Yea I know that this vid is without TGP Handoff, but I guarantee you that TGP Handoff has NOTHING to do with hit chances… trust me with what I tell you, I wrote the damn thing :mrgreen:
Basically the only rule for Mavericks to hit is (Regardless of delivery mode):
Make sure the Maverick is locked up (BSGT in WPN page) and that the cross isn’t flashing. That’s it. -
My understanding is that when WPN page is not displayed that seeker video is in standby (blank/black). If WPN format is not on either MFD then missile video is standby and handoff will fail since it can’t match TGP video with a black screen successfully. Even if it is possible it’s a bad, bad, bad, bad practice to shoot a Maverick without looking at the WPN format at all.
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Yea I know that this vid is without TGP Handoff, but I guarantee you that TGP Handoff has NOTHING to do with hit chances… trust me with what I tell you, I wrote the damn thing :mrgreen:
Basically the only rule for Mavericks to hit is (Regardless of delivery mode):
Make sure the Maverick is locked up (BSGT in WPN page) and that the cross isn’t flashing. That’s it.Just fired off six mavs at moving tanks without doing the TGP handoff… no problem. As I hawk said, just lock it up with the mav, get within release parameters and pickle… (I have found that if the arrow won’t stop flashing even if it is lined up, it could be roll issue. I either roll more into the target or away but it usually stops flashing and is able to hit. ).
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yes the continuous flashing was a major source of headache. You found out that the roll can contribute, but I also found out that a higher altitude in that TE fine weather mission does help getting a steady cross. Perhaps the targets elevation is much more than the IP where the jet is flying into the target. By the way all my comments are referring to handoff technique in shooting which could be very useful if you are after an SA-13 or SA-15.
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My understanding is that when WPN page is not displayed that seeker video is in standby (blank/black). If WPN format is not on either MFD then missile video is standby and handoff will fail since it can’t match TGP video with a black screen successfully. Even if it is possible it’s a bad, bad, bad, bad practice to shoot a Maverick without looking at the WPN format at all.
Don’t worry it’s not possible to Handoff with the WPN not working
The conditions for TGP Handoff for controlling the missile’s FOV are:
1. The AC can do Maverick Handoff (not all variants can).
2. Maverick in PRE mode (note that this is not correct, as Handoff should also be possible in VIS mode IRL, but for now this is a limitation until I will check to see if possible to change).
3. TGP exists and TGP is the SOI.
4. Missile is an IR Maverick (currently in BMS, it means D or G Maverick).
5. WPN page is on 1 of the MFDs
6. Missile cover is off.yes the continuous flashing was a major source of headache. You found out that the roll can contribute, but I also found out that a higher altitude in that TE fine weather mission does help getting a steady cross. Perhaps the targets elevation is much more than the IP where the jet is flying into the target. By the way all my comments are referring to handoff technique in shooting which could be very useful if you are after an SA-13 or SA-15.
No it’s not altitude, it’s probably attitude, maybe your nose is too high so you are out of the keyhole… lowering the nose should help, it’s all about angles.
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From TO BMS1-F16CM-34-1-1 in the \Falcon BMS 4.33\Docs\Falcon BMS Manuals folder:
During time of lock on or handoff do not exceed 30° of bank angle. This will result in an invalid track (flashing weapon pointing cross).
Do not launch the AGM-65 missile under conditions which exceed the following limits:
1. Maximum launch speed: Mach 1.2.
2. Maximum gimbal offset angle: AGM-65A = 15°; AGM-65B = 10°; AGM-65D/G = keyhole (see Figure 56 below).
3. Maximum dive angle: 60°.
4. Maximum bank angle: 30°.
5. Maximum roll rate: 30°/s.
6. Minimum/maximum load factor: +0.5 g/+3.0 g.No.5 above is one to watch out for. Line up with the target before you attempt a handoff, as a roll rate of more than 30° per second is no go.
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there was absolutely nothing wrong with the jet’s attitude but the cross kept flashing. With higher altitude and same attitude the flashing stops. I’ll make another run for it today and confirm again.
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there was absolutely nothing wrong with the jet’s attitude but the cross kept flashing. With higher altitude and same attitude the flashing stops. I’ll make another run for it today and confirm again.
OK, I’ll need to see a vid in order to understand what is the problem… I showed a vid of how it should work, usually.
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Two vids with flashing cross:
http://www.individcore.de/video/Mav_1.mp4
http://www.individcore.de/video/Mav_2.mp4
Greeting
Earlybite
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F4-BMS on IndividCore.de -
the flashing in the video needed a better adjustment to make it disappear, so that wasn’t all that too surprising to see. Its still not the handoff technique.
But I finally did make four strikes in a single pass with radar altitude 4000~3000 fts using the handoff technique. So no I don’t think its altitude either. I think what happened in the past was related to the handoff process itself. Perhaps because the Maverick has the force correlation capability that the handoff may not be successful sometimes. I usually pick a large building or object to go through the handoff process before reaching target. It is very much possible to have the TG Pod placed at one point on the large target and have the Mav placed on a different point of the same target when bore sighting. If that happens then I think the handoff might end up being not accurate and thus cross keeps flashing when in target area and using the handoff method.
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Flashing cross has NOTHING to do with Handoff. Flashing cross tells you that if you release the missile now, it’ll probably miss, that’s it. If you get a flashing cross then one or more of the conditions for a steady cross aren’t satisfied.