NOTAM Kimpo SID
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NOTAM Kimpo SID
Typo on the KMPO SID.pdf
ENKAS is at N 37° 30.361 E 128° 22.683
not at–--------N 37° 20.361 E 128° 22.683 as depcited on the PDF -
Hi Hans
well, I’ve just got the chance to verify your post “NOTAM Kimpo SID” (Dec, 12 2015)
of course - the point we discuss about is called ENKAS….
It seems to me, that you just wanted to correct the value for the N coordinate - changed it from 37° 20.361 to 37° 30.361
this might be correct but in the same line you (accidently?) changed also the E coordinate by approx 0.32 NM (from E128° 22.683’ - as it was in the original 4.33 chart - to E 128° 22.263 ??Why?
Nevertheless:
Take SEOUL HATCH ONE DEP - you will find the same (wrong) values for ENKAS
The Problem is, that there seems to be no really good reference for this point, because it now (since 4.33) is based upon SEL VORTAC (Ch 102 X) (in 4.32 it was based on SUWON SWN Ch 22X)
In BMS I was - up to now - unable to find and verify any exact position mentioned for SEL VORTACWe might end up drawing a 020°/15 NM from NORU - but then end up at a point close to 37° 31.260 E 128° 24.300 - a point further NW of the position you corrected
Bottom line:
who could provide us with an exact position for SEL VORTAC (Ch 102 X) ???
Haven’t thought about it before, but….
easiest and most exact way to determine the position of SEL VTAC in BMS 4.33 of course is by simply overflying it.
That’s what I just did.
Then marked it and look: SEL VTAC is very, very close to: N37° 26.425’ E 127° 54.215’
Then intercepted R080° outbound , entered SEL as steerpoint and checked position 22.0 NM on this radial.
Checked present altitude (because of slant range while on 18000 ft ) corrected that position for 0.2 NM (exact it would have been 0.2044 DME) and voila:ENKAS Position on the Koren map would be: (as close as I could fly the radial at the (corrected) DME) : N 37° 30.287’ E 128° 21.732’
My suggestion !
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Sorry, I’m new, but can’t you just reference it from elsewhere? And then you could use VOR nav to reach the point.
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who could provide us with an exact position for SEL VORTAC (Ch 102 X) ???
The interactive map
the above was taken from the objective coordinates.
Real world data are useless in falcon
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Hi Hans
well, I’ve just got had chance to verify your post “NOTAM Kimpo SID” (Dec, 12 2015)
of course - the point we discuss about is called ENKAS….
It seems to me, that you just wanted to correct the value for the N coordinate - changed it from 37° 20.361 to 37° 30.361
this might be correct but in the same line you (accidently?) changed also the E coordinate by approx 0.32 NM (from E128° 22.683’ - as it was in the original 4.33 chart - to E 128° 22.263 ??Why?
No idea what I was doing there. I never intended to suggest a correction for Longitude (E setting). Initial post corrected
Nevertheless:
Take SEOUL HATCH ONE DEP - you will find the same (wrong) values for ENKAS,
The Problem is, that there seems to be no really good reference for this point, because it now (since 4.33) is based upon SEL VORTAC (Ch 102 X) (in 4.32 it was based on SUWON SWN Ch 22X)
In BMS I was - up to now - unable to find and verify any exact position mentioned for SEL VORTACWe might end up drawing a 020°/15 NM from NORU - but then end up at a point close to 37° 31.260 E 128° 24.300 - a point further NW of the position you corrected
Bottom line:
who could provide us with an exact position for SEL VORTAC (Ch 102 X) ???
Haven’t thought about it before, but….
easiest and most exact way to determine the position of SEL VTAC in BMS 4.33 of course is by simply overflying it.
That’s what I just did.
Then marked it and look: SEL VTAC is very, very close to: N37° 26.425’ E 127° 54.215’
Then intercepted R080° outbound , entered SEL as steerpoint and checked position 22.0 NM on this radial.
Checked present altitude (because of slant range while on 18000 ft ) corrected that position for 0.2 NM (exact it would have been 0.2044 DME) and voila:ENKAS Position on the Koren map would be: (as close as I could fly the radial at the (corrected) DME) : N 37° 30.287’ E 128° 21.732’
My suggestion !
1 full minute is about 6000 ft (LAT) or 5000 ft (Long).
With the precision that can be reached and that is required for IFR worrying about a decimal point of a minute is a bit like splitting hairs. Still sometimes it is fun to obsess about things.
What I did initially was fly the the SID and create a markpoint when reaching ENKAS (with the precision i flew it). I compared the coordinates of the markpoint with the printed coordinates and saw a roughly 10 minute difference in LAT
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Hello, all
I am digging on IFR. I found something in chart manual. so I searched the forum. I arrived here.
Hans said, the position of ENKAS is slightly wrong. Someone said it’s marginal , Hans said it’ not.
If the values are marginal (+/-1nm of distance and +/-1degs of bearing) , it would be tolerate.
ENKAS is not the case.From Kimpo SID, ENKAS position is located R80 and DME22 from SEL VTAC (Anyang).
The GPS coordinates were obtained from Red dog interactive map.
SEL: N37d26.430 E127d54.199 (d is degree)
ENKAS: N37d20.361 E128d22.683 (from Chart manual)
ENKAS2: N37d30.361 E128d22.683 (Hans predicted)Let’s calculate distance and bearing from these data. (use a calculator here, http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong.html)
The first case: distance 23.44 bearing 104d52 (from initial)
The second case Hans predicted: distance 22.9 bearing 79d.52The distance is no problem of both cases.
Bearing is problem in the first case that the angle difference is large (24 degs).The remedy is two.
1. correct ENKAS gps position.
2. correct bearing to ENKAS to R-104 :
ENKAS is an entrance for G597 airway. Thus, I think the first solution would be good.Thanks,
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Everybody in here agrees that the published coordinates on Enkas are significantly wrong.
If you correct with my number or the one from fsb27 is probably splitting hairs. -
Hans is right.
tested myself flying there first and then use the Nav position calculator made by Neystratiou and the coordinates for Enkas are N37°30.243 E128°21.711
I’ll update the charts As soon as I have a chance -
@Red:
Hans is right.
tested myself flying there first and then use the Nav position calculator made by Neystratiou and the coordinates for Enkas are N37°30.243 E128°21.711
I’ll update the charts As soon as I have a chanceChecked and confirmed ;).
Nikos. -
very useful piece of programming Nikos, well done
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@Red:
very useful piece of programming Nikos, well done
You are welcome dear friend.
If you think or find anything about it, please let me know. Always an opinion by a great dev is welcomed, at least :p.Ver 1.1 is released. Some more good infos for the “limits” of coordinates of each one theater. At the same thread, 1st post
P.S. My condolences for the people that died in your country today.
Nikos. -
Hey Reddog,
a minor issue in another chart, which still confused a few ifr students:Pohang Airbase, Posco1 departure.
The departure route descriptionsa re mixed up.The text for runway 26 matches the ground track on the map for runway 08 and the other way round.
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yep, that one is already corrected, but not published yet