RedFlagTG Theater Announcement
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You cant make a realistic Nevada, it looks extremely generic when flying it in game. Trust me this theater is not a realistic possibility you simply do not have the needed time to do, maybe a group like FO could but I doubt they really want to hassle with this theater. Sorry man but as a guy who put over a year into this theater it simply is too slow of a process
Two guys with the same goal would be already a group.
So if you would join forces then ā¦
@Iceburg
If I would (try to) do a terrain again I would do the initially tiling by using old tools
(intensive as possible) with the originally 1998 tiles first.I would do the initially tiling with TerrainView (TV), then maybe CATE,
and Monsters TerrainEditor for finetune.But you will handtile afterwards for ages anyway.
At the end you have to try and see yourself which tools gives better results for your theater.
Some food for thought:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?18985-Monster-s-Terrain-Editor-and-auto-tilingGood luck!
Cheers,
LS -
Thatās the way to talk and address a speech, LS!
+1000.
With best regards,
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Two guys with the same goal would be already a group.
So if you would join forces then ā¦
@Iceburg
If I would (try to) do a terrain again I would do the initially tiling by using old tools
(intensive as possible) with the originally 1998 tiles first.I would do the initially tiling with TerrainView (TV), then maybe CATE,
and Monsters TerrainEditor for finetune.But you will handtile afterwards for ages anyway.
At the end you have to try and see yourself which tools gives better results for your theater.
Some food for thought:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?18985-Monster-s-Terrain-Editor-and-auto-tilingGood luck!
Cheers,http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/hat_3.gif
LSLawndart
I expect it to take 18 months to do Nevada and I know about the tiles and restrictions but I am not discouraged. The current versions have one thing in common. Too much plain sand and not enough detail in the tiles. With there being so few roads and rivers over the actual range I believe I can make a difference. If you are willing to share some of your work then perhaps we could help each other. Falcon in itās current state will never bring 100% realism in the terrain but I feel that steps could be taken to improve it. Besides I like this stuff!LS
I am looking at a few tile sets that are out there and trying to determine what could work. I am not sure exactly how to do it yet but I am optimistic an answer will present itself. Thanks for the links but seen them both already. Still doing my homework so to speak. -
Iceburg,
Awesome enthusiasm. This theater idea has been worked on by a thousand people for a thousand years, and it never gets completed. Maybe youāll be the guy, and I hope you are.My recommendation, as always, is to make your theater as small as reasonable to still be able to do whatever your main idea is. A 64x64 segment theater is a huge amount of work, and you donāt have a lot of water there to take the pain away. I tried a 16x16 segment Nevada with Polak and it was too small because you could see off the end of the map. So my recommendation is to scope it down to 32x32. Panama uses that size and itās very workable.
I had the start of a Fallon theater here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/v289kowzs047f45/Fallon.rar
There are some tiles in there- see if there is anything you can use. I donāt think it will work as a drop-on and play theater; itās just the terrain that would require you to build the theater folder around it.
If you havenāt, read all of the threads in this subforum from start to finish. We did a lot of work on this theater over the years. Polak, in fact, had a nice photo-real Las Vegas, for instance.
My true advice? Shelve this idea until you work on an existing theater and get some experience. Maybe pitch in with Norway. Itās an extraordinarily painful, time-consuming, and difficult process to build a theater from scratch.
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Would love to see a finished Nevada but, yes, has been attempted and abandoned a few times.
I have no skill nor time to help with the grunt work but lemme know if you need help testing.
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As Iāve mentioned a couple times here, I was on the original Nevada team before with Com_GP as object Placer and TE designer, also a couple other teams including FFās.
Iāve been trying to release my Red Flag 00-01 TEs for literaly years now, each time a new version of Nevada,
Spx, FFx or BMS comes out and makes me have to start
over from almost scratch.and that was an email from 2004, so I understand what Lawndart, Toonces, and Mower are saying.
Honestly, my main interest at the time was to replicate some of what Falcon 3.0 had. But over the years that desire was waned due to multiple factors and one being I feel like KOTAR brings a lot of what F3 had in Nevada (besides for the waving cowboy, donkey riders in the Grand Canyon, and a few other Easter eggs)
Your theater area selection looks like the original IIRC. The large 128x128 selection makes a lot of sense because along with Nellis and Groom Lake you can get also get in Luke, Tonapah, and Fallon. But you can start to hit the tiles limit with something that big. And I am not a tiles guy, I was just barely a object placer.
But I did a lot of research on the ranges and Red Flags, especially 00-01 with JG73. Iām a believer that Red Flag works much better as a TE set than a dynamic campaign. If somebody would get a working Nevada I would still be down to make the TEs both older school 00-01 and a more modern one, but I donāt think I can help that much making the actual terrain.
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Theater is 64 and moved from original concept to include more water for navel ops off of the coast. It is a TON of work and not my first roller coaster. I had a partially working Nevada before but disaster hit and that was that. I agree Snake that it is more of a TE theater. There isnāt really a way to do a campaign unless it is fictional but going to try anyway. Nellis for me is a sentimental thing. I lived it for 4 years so I know the jist and terrain actually. There will be compromise for sure and I will do my best to make it happen. Actually have volunteers already. Love it.
Toonces, Thanks for the files! I am sure there is something in there I can use. I actually thought about the 32 x 32 for just the range.
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Make sure you still go far enough to get Tonopah, both the city, the civilian airport, and the military field. If you get that you have all of the Red Flag MOAs, Restricted Areas, and ranges. Tonopah has became more and more of the Red Air base these days. You still get some aggressors out of Nellis and probably still something on occasion out of Dream Land like the Constant Peg days. But in general, Tonopah is pretty important.
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I have no skill nor time to help with the grunt work but lemme know if you need help testing.
+1, this would be a particular pleasure for me.
With best regards,
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Make sure you still go far enough to get Tonopah, both the city, the civilian airport, and the military field. If you get that you have all of the Red Flag MOAs, Restricted Areas, and ranges. Tonopah has became more and more of the Red Air base these days. You still get some aggressors out of Nellis and probably still something on occasion out of Dream Land like the Constant Peg days. But in general, Tonopah is pretty important.
Tonopah always was. The chopper leaves at 6ā¦lol
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Hi All!
Need a little advice. After much consideration I might do a 2 phase theater. I am going to develop a 32 x 32 theater for Red Flag and along side a 64 x 64 Nevada. If my thinking is correct I should be able to use most of what is created for RF and transfer to Nevada. If I was to keep the center the same in both theaters would I be able to use some of the tiles from Redflag. If I was to insert all of the .E00 files in both theaters would I be able to use data in both also or should I just create with .Eoo for each separate, meaning less E00 data in RedFlag. Redflag would be strictly TE so it would be finished faster and we would have something to train with. Thoughts? -
Hello, Iceburg.
If I have understood your thoughts correctly (English is not my native language), and if this project can make you saving time and pain, most of all, on my little own I would say: āFine, mate. Go on this way!ā
Just my one cent, I repeat.With my best wishes and regards,
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Uhmm, Iceburg,
I personally would do the effort once and create the 64 seg. theater,
because you do the autotiling and auto- object placing using .e00-> .tdf anyway.For handtiling and hand object placing, etc. I would concentrate
on the 32 seg. area first and make it āniceā, so you can do TEās here.
ā¦ then hand- finish the rest.Else you would have to fight with 2 differently UI files, Terrain files, ā¦ etc.
But Iām not qualified to say which way is the best for RF/ Nevada,
as Iāve never been there.Cheers,
LS -
Have basic tiles in place but it is very ugly at the moment. Still looking at tiles and working creating some as well. Not ready to post anything up at this point but work continues.
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It looks promising
Heheh I will compare this to DCS Nevada XD haha jk, no pressure man.
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Have basic tiles in place but it is very ugly at the moment. Still looking at tiles and working creating some as well. Not ready to post anything up at this point but work continues.
Any update?
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Having done a complete theater once - it only took 6 years! I suspect Nevada will take at least a few years to do it properly. Really depends on the bells and whistles.
I wouldnāt mess around with anything less than 64x64 and anything more than 64x64. Nevada is doable but the real killer is the terrain. ITO sucked until Polak made some fantastic desert tiles. However, the real standard is photorealistic. Be great if someone could drag and drop huge swaths of Google earth terrain in scale for the area and then work on patches of phototiles with transitions into photorealistic tiles that blend into the more traditional falcon tile sets.
Having grown up in Las Vegas, and right near Nellis, I would have a hard time cozying up my home town looking like the same old falcon city tiles. The real cats meow would be to phototile Las Vegas, Lake Mead, the mountain north of Vegas up to Area 51 and west to Indian Springs, Tonopah, etc . . . one could perhaps build the DB to include a lot of international A/C as is the custom for visitors at Nellis. Might also add in the Thunderbirds - that would be a cool thing to see a multiplayer airshow . . . it is all just dreams. The hard part is making it become a reality. I tend to think the old installer has the terrain sufficiently built - just tweak it with hand-tiling and elevation adjustments. Then get a good TE builder and TE the heck out of the theater.
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@Iceburg - any progress?
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If youāre doing Red Flag, it has to be a TE set if youre going to simulate the exercise itself. The Ex itself does not build on the previous dayās mission per se, except where they are conducting a CSAR/JPR serial. In that case some unfortunate the day before gets to be designated mort for the following dayās mission to allow the CSAR bods to practice their TTPs. The actual theatre need not be that large (in comparison to other places), as in actual fact the NTTR and the area around it is all that is really required. Apart from Nellis, you only really need Tonopah and Creech AFB for the airfields. Anything above those would actually be unrealistic since anything else operating from another afld generally comes from much farther afield (think Barksdale or Dyess for the Global Strike guys).
Best of luck anyway, as for all my comments above, Iām nowhere near knowledgeable enough to even scratch the surface of a project like this!
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If youāre doing Red Flag, it has to be a TE set if youre going to simulate the exercise itself. The Ex itself does not build on the previous dayās mission per se, except where they are conducting a CSAR/JPR serial. In that case some unfortunate the day before gets to be designated mort for the following dayās mission to allow the CSAR bods to practice their TTPs. The actual theatre need not be that large (in comparison to other places), as in actual fact the NTTR and the area around it is all that is really required. Apart from Nellis, you only really need Tonopah and Creech AFB for the airfields. Anything above those would actually be unrealistic since anything else operating from another afld generally comes from much farther afield (think Barksdale or Dyess for the Global Strike guys).
Best of luck anyway, as for all my comments above, Iām nowhere near knowledgeable enough to even scratch the surface of a project like this!
I agree, what we are NOT realizing yet is that Falcon\BMS allows us Theater Dckhds to have OFF MAP Airbaseās to fly the AI as well as āJPā squads off of.
We can take a quick look at GUAM BETA (4.32) and realize that KADENA is no where on the map, but the ATO still generates the C130 and F15 flights from there.
Jeeshā¦ā¦LOL!!!
I guess WE did not :rtfm: enuff!!!BIG sigh,
demer