"Read The Manual" replies
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Yeah, sure, teach a man how to fish… unfortunately, the fishing vessel itself is rather complex, maintenance of the nets, casting techniques, where and when to best fish and what fish to expect at certain given locations… would it hurt to give him a fish or two to tide him over as he learns how to fish? Again, this isn’t about teaching a new pilot EVERYTHING there is to know about the sim, it’s about getting him to the point wherein he’s self-sufficient.
One thing we need to remember is that while something may seem simple and intuitive to us NOW, it may not be so for the new pilot. I personally don’t have a clue about what I’ve read about, then I go out and have a few test fights, then something starts to click, then I go back to read that section again and things start making more sense. That’s just how I learn. Also, sometimes the manual is worded in such a way as to go over a lay person’s head but when explained in simpler terms would be perfectly understandable.
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One thing we need to remember is that while something may seem simple and intuitive to us NOW, it may not be so for the new pilot. I personally don’t have a clue about what I’ve read about, then I go out and have a few test fights, then something starts to click, then I go back to read that section again and things start making more sense
once again, that’s the EXACT purpose of the training missions and associated manual and the reason why that manual was created on top of the others, to tie them all together with specific in flight actions documented in writing. by using the pause button, the newbee can train on his own and try until he gets it right.
Also, sometimes the manual is worded in such a way as to go over a lay person’s head but when explained in simpler terms would be perfectly understandable.
Are you talking about the BMS manual suite? - because that’s funny! initially BMS wanted the manuals to be even more complicated to read - a la real Tech Order only.
I didn’t want that as I specifically wanted to keep the level to beginner/intermediate level to avoid that very issue.
So I’d disagree with that argument, except maybe for the -34 which hasn’t been rewritten yet. -
Some of my 2 cents here,
I have read and done the half of BMS-Training.pdf, haven’t completed all of it yet but thought it would be the best document to start learning the BMS with.
Video games usually have a tutorials nowadays and(of course BMS is more like simulator than a game but) this doc would be such a kind of “Tutorial” for BMS.
Perhaps newbies may still don’t have an idea or can’t find this BMS-Training.pdf as a tutorial, so it might be more helpful if its file name was BMS-Tutorial.pdf, and if launcher shows the content called “Documantation, Manuals and Tutorial” in next update.I also read and searched for HOTAS information through 4 manuals in C:\Falcon BMS 4.33 U1\Docs and thought it will be helpful if there is some more description about HOTAS setup.
3-4 people of my DCS friends showed an interest for BMS but they were all stumbled to find the essential key to bind when they saw the CONTROL setup menu.
I read those manuals but it seemed it still requires some inspiration to find out HOTAS setup is the first essential job to start BMS.
Copy the description about F-16 HOTAS from TO-BMS1F-16CM-34-1-1, and suggesting people to search “5.11 Flight Stick” “2.19 Throttle Quadrant System” in the setup menu at the Foreword section of BMS-Training.pdf may help them. -
Mower, does this “fish thing” not go back to the Falcon forum at Frugal’s?
Yes, brother, it does.
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@Red:
once again, that’s the EXACT purpose of the training missions and associated manual and the reason why that manual was created on top of the others, to tie them all together with specific in flight actions documented in writing. by using the pause button, the newbee can train on his own and try until he gets it right.
Are you talking about the BMS manual suite? - because that’s funny! initially BMS wanted the manuals to be even more complicated to read - a la real Tech Order only.
I didn’t want that as I specifically wanted to keep the level to beginner/intermediate level to avoid that very issue.
So I’d disagree with that argument, except maybe for the -34 which hasn’t been rewritten yet.I am referring to the -1 and -34. I do agree that the -Training manual makes things easier but I was under the impression that the “RTFM” expression we were talking about meant either the -1 or the -34.
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Rtfm is for all…
U have to learn the application and the viper.And your hw, and your OS.
And to have the family and the squad happy.
Bottom line, guys are tired, and they deserve a break, newbs should start forgetting their sacking thing.
So some will start rtfm some will start reading some will start rtfm q’s.
sent from my Xperia Z3 compact via TapaTalk
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Rtfm is for all…
Indeed, I get that now. However, remember that the training manual and other bits are fairly new additions but RTFM has existed for a very long time and indeed, has been used in these very forums from the start. In my mind, I was operating under that context.
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:wfish:
You will appreciate the sim much more if you do. The problem is that some (people) give up and ask for help on stuff most of us learned years ago without the PDF search bar and reading printed manuals (books). There is some satisfaction in figuring things out for yourself, and at the same time, there is some disdain shown for those who are asking for the answers without reading. It is how it has always been and I see no reason to stray away from that.
You think the BMS manuals are difficult to absorb? Try sticking your nose in a USAF document. You will understand that the BMS manuals are as close to the layman as your going to get.
Sometimes I feel that if Falcon was simpler, it would have died off years ago with ALL the other software released in the last century. Even with the DC.
BTW, it is rare, that someone posts a question and includes what they are not understanding in the manual, and gets an RTFM. If you show some effort, people are usually falling over themselves to help you out.
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Well reading a printed book than a pdf on a computer monitor for me is way better.
Before I got my tablet, or tts on my phone, it was way hard to read xxx pages on the pc.
When searching, pc monitor is the best there is.
sent from my Xperia Z3 compact via TapaTalk
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ENOUGH !
I’m not sure how many of you have actually been through actual military flight training or how many of you have any actual combat aircraft under your belts; but, given some of the snotty answers given on this thread, the answer appears to be ‘NONE’.
Here’s how it goes in the REAL world of military aviation……
You get buried in reference materials and things to learn. There is PLENTY of reading, memorizing, browsing BUT you are given a syllabus. You are provided a way to get from schoolhouse door to flightdeck. Systems, avionics, weapons training, weather, aeronautical knowledge…all picked up along the way. Drilled, messed up, drilled again, fixed and built upon- and that is where mentorship comes into play, HEAVILY.
SO to all of you RTFM jerks out there, I challenge you to get over yourselves, specifically the pride you take in your proficiency; it means NOTHING unless you can convey/share it.
Without a syllabus, some sort of roadmap to get from enthusiastic noob to fully operational line pilot, this community is doomed to dwindling down to those so proud of their own efforts, they’ll forever be legends in their own minds, for there will be no other minds around willing to tolerate the stench of their elitist, dismissive, unwelcoming efforts at killing off the concept of mentorship.…oh, and yeah, there is a LOT of that mentorship going on in the real flying world, military and otherwise.
Govern yourselves accordingly.
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ENOUGH !
I’m not sure how many of you have actually been through actual military flight training or how many of you have any actual combat aircraft under your belts; but, given some of the snotty answers given on this thread, the answer appears to be ‘NONE’.
Too bad, there are Not me, admittedly.
Here’s how it goes in the REAL world of military aviation……
You get buried in reference materials and things to learn. There is PLENTY of reading, memorizing, browsing BUT you are given a syllabus. You are provided a way to get from schoolhouse door to flightdeck. Systems, avionics, weapons training, weather, aeronautical knowledge…all picked up along the way. Drilled, messed up, drilled again, fixed and built upon- and that is where mentorship comes into play, HEAVILY.
And the BMS training manual and missions are … what, exactly ?
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ENOUGH !
No need to get bent.
Mind explaining boresighting mavericks to me? I haven’t read that part of the manual yet. :mrgreen:
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No need to get bent.
Mind explaining boresighting mavericks to me? I haven’t read that part of the manual yet. :mrgreen:
Sure thing, just stand in front of my jet bro.
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ENOUGH !
I’m not sure how many of you have actually been through actual military flight training or how many of you have any actual combat aircraft under your belts; but, given some of the snotty answers given on this thread, the answer appears to be ‘NONE’.
Here’s how it goes in the REAL world of military aviation……
You get buried in reference materials and things to learn. There is PLENTY of reading, memorizing, browsing BUT you are given a syllabus. You are provided a way to get from schoolhouse door to flightdeck. Systems, avionics, weapons training, weather, aeronautical knowledge…all picked up along the way. Drilled, messed up, drilled again, fixed and built upon- and that is where mentorship comes into play, HEAVILY.
SO to all of you RTFM jerks out there, I challenge you to get over yourselves, specifically the pride you take in your proficiency; it means NOTHING unless you can convey/share it.
Without a syllabus, some sort of roadmap to get from enthusiastic noob to fully operational line pilot, this community is doomed to dwindling down to those so proud of their own efforts, they’ll forever be legends in their own minds, for there will be no other minds around willing to tolerate the stench of their elitist, dismissive, unwelcoming efforts at killing off the concept of mentorship.…oh, and yeah, there is a LOT of that mentorship going on in the real flying world, military and otherwise.
Govern yourselves accordingly.
Bud you are never going to get that on your own. The only place you can get close to that is with a VFW or VFS. You’re asking for something very specialized and quite frankly you need a good instructor who knows what they’re doing. It takes tremendous amounts of time and unless you’re going to be flying with me regularly the best you’re going to get is quick answers, but never the whole picture, especially on a FORUM which is nearly impossible. There is simply too much to cover for one question that leads to another question that leads to another. For every hour of flight instruction you’re looking at almost the equivilent on the ground studying for that one event. And you think you’re somehow going to get this through text or on a forum? Go join a VFW if that’s what you’re looking for, but demanding that we hold your hand and invest in you, when you haven’t invested yourself to real dedication it takes to master this sim, you’ve no room to bark how it’s done. There is no snottiness to it, it’s just reality bud you’re not going to get these answers unless you gasp RTFM and get your hands dirty in the books. That’s how it’s done: education -> knowledge -> application. Go do it!
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Sure thing, just stand in front of my jet bro.
This is all you would see from me in front of your jet!
However, if they ever have a two seater I’ll be first in line to be your WSO!
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Bud you are never going to get that on your own. The only place you can get close to that is with a VFW or VFS. You’re asking for something very specialized and quite frankly you need a good instructor who knows what they’re doing. It takes tremendous amounts of time and unless you’re going to be flying with me regularly the best you’re going to get is quick answers, but never the whole picture, especially on a FORUM which is nearly impossible. There is simply too much to cover for one question that leads to another question that leads to another. For every hour of flight instruction you’re looking at almost the equivilent on the ground studying for that one event. And you think you’re somehow going to get this through text or on a forum? Go join a VFW if that’s what you’re looking for, but demanding that we hold your hand and invest in you, when you haven’t invested yourself to real dedication it takes to master this sim, you’ve no room to bark how it’s done. There is no snottiness to it, it’s just reality bud you’re not going to get these answers unless you gasp RTFM and get your hands dirty in the books. That’s how it’s done: education -> knowledge -> application. Go do it!
I demand nothing of the sort.
In fact, I observe; the distinction is important. That this reality bugs you is your problem, but reality intrudes.Funny you mention the invention of this sim we love, though……why was it invented and presented to anyone with the bandwidth to download it if NOT to share the knowledge, the skills, and the sense of accomplishment that comes with the pursuit of those knowledge and skills ?? Falcon’s very existence stands at odds with this flippant ‘I know more than you do, figure it out’ attitude that in no way maintains and enhances anything beyond the fragile ego of one so self absorbed as to be such a jerk.
So far as ‘barking’ how it is done; it is inconsistent at best to create this sim and its manuals to be as realistic as possible (VERY realistic) and then fail to go the distance by providing the basic structure all military aviation students receive. I refer not to detailed lesson plans and 1 on 1 instruction. A simple syllabus with tasks and standards works just fine. If this is the part where you expect me to believe that a mere ‘Noob’s FAQ’ regarding how to start, to progress, to become proficient, and to sustain proficiency is far too taxing given the ridiculous level of detail apparent in the manuals alone, to say nothing of the flight model, weapons, systems, ad infinitum, ad nausea- you are terribly mistaken. Makes no sense at all, nor does getting all ‘RTFM’ about getting the same questions over and over in the absence of such a resource.
Me ?
I’m fine, I’ve multiple military combat acft under my belt and fly for a living. I know what I need and where to look for what I don’t know. I am, by NO means, ‘typical’ in that regard. The idea is to attract others to this community, to keep it growing, to share. Do consider that, Redshift, next time you think of "RTFM"ing any of us noobs to suit some personal sense of piousness when it comes to ‘knowing your stuff’.Education does not do well in a vacuum.
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So far as ‘barking’ how it is done; it is inconsistent at best to create this sim and its manuals to be as realistic as possible (VERY realistic) and then fail to go the distance by providing the basic structure all military aviation students receive. I refer not to detailed lesson plans and 1 on 1 instruction. A simple syllabus with tasks and standards works just fine. If this is the part where you expect me to believe that a mere ‘Noob’s FAQ’ regarding how to start, to progress, to become proficient, and to sustain proficiency is far too taxing given the ridiculous level of detail apparent in the manuals alone, to say nothing of the flight model, weapons, systems, ad infinitum, ad nausea- you are terribly mistaken. Makes no sense at all, nor does getting all ‘RTFM’ about getting the same questions over and over in the absence of such a resource.
Pardon me, but isn’t this exactly what the Training Manual is? A step by step series of instructions that teaches you how to do things in the sim with references back to the appropriate chapters in the full manuals should you need more information?
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That’s what I was telling you, some of the wings do this to a very high level that you’d be surprised how detailed they are and the syllabus’ they provide, unbelievable and is exactly what you’re talking about, but folks wont get there by asking questions on a forum, they have to pursue that for themselves and seek that out. The devs can’t do it for them, which is what this place and website is, the central hub of the BMS community to connect people, not train people. They do a really good job providing the amount of materials they have in that “Docs” folder and the other stuff you can get through the many freely public USAF docs and militaries abroad.
People learn this by the hard knocks you get from practice and finding people on your own who are the best and brightest at this. I can lead the horse to the water, but making him drink is another thing all together and you can’t mentor through a manual as you say, there is not enough time in the day to train everyone because not everyone has the same aptitude, talent, ability, intelligence, ect to understand the complex maneuvering environment of ACM, understanding the differences and reasons of choosing a bracket, fan, WID, ect at the merge and WHY plus how to establish roles and effectively support your buddy in the EF/SF scenario. Some you just can’t pound that into no matter how much you try, but those who have the raw stuff to actually “get it” will do so through their hard work and study of a good RTFMing
But to say that everyone here isn’t trying to teach I’d say it’s actually the opposite. All the people saying read read read are saying so because that’s how you get the finer details while you learn from your training applying what you’ve read in the simulator and this time frame just like in the real world takes 2-4 years to complete. As Red Dog said earlier folks want to run before they can walk, they can’t even fly the overhead approach and land at 3 over 1 on the Papi at 13 AOA everytime, but want to run advanced intercepts on bandits with a flight of two or four? Love to teach, but a lot of people take and don’t give back so most people screen and choose wisely before investing to teach someone, cause nothing sucks more than to spend 50 hours combined showing someone, they quit, for some they view it as “just a game.” There are a lot of factors involved to “RTFM” than simple rudeness, you have to choose other pilots who wont waste your time too.
So I totally get that education does not do well in a vacuum, but it’s about how deep you get into it and who you share it with.
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Pardon me, but isn’t this exactly what the Training Manual is? A step by step series of instructions that teaches you how to do things in the sim with references back to the appropriate chapters in the full manuals should you need more information?
No pardon required.
It is a start.
It is by no means comprehensive, nor is it meant to be. -
That’s what I was telling you, some of the wings do this to a very high level that you’d be surprised how detailed they are and the syllabus’ they provide, unbelievable and is exactly what you’re talking about, but folks wont get there by asking questions on a forum, they have to pursue that for themselves and seek that out. The devs can’t do it for them, which is what this place and website is, the central hub of the BMS community to connect people, not train people. They do a really good job providing the amount of materials they have in that “Docs” folder and the other stuff you can get through the many freely public USAF docs and militaries abroad.
People learn this by the hard knocks you get from practice and finding people on your own who are the best and brightest at this. I can lead the horse to the water, but making him drink is another thing all together and you can’t mentor through a manual as you say, there is not enough time in the day to train everyone because not everyone has the same aptitude, talent, ability, intelligence, ect to understand the complex maneuvering environment of ACM, understanding the differences and reasons of choosing a bracket, fan, WID, ect at the merge and WHY plus how to establish roles and effectively support your buddy in the EF/SF scenario. Some you just can’t pound that into no matter how much you try, but those who have the raw stuff to actually “get it” will do so through their hard work and study of a good RTFMing
But to say that everyone here isn’t trying to teach I’d say it’s actually the opposite. All the people saying read read read are saying so because that’s how you get the finer details while you learn from your training applying what you’ve read in the simulator and this time frame just like in the real world takes 2-4 years to complete. As Red Dog said earlier folks want to walk before they can run, they can’t even fly the overhead approach and land at 3 over 1 on the Papi at 13 AOA everytime, but want to run advanced intercepts on bandits with a flight of two or four? Love to teach, but a lot of people take and don’t give back so most people screen and choose wisely before investing to teach someone, cause nothing sucks more than to spend 50 hours combined showing someone, they quit, for some they view it as “just a game.” There are a lot of factors involved to “RTFM” than simple rudeness, you have to choose other pilots who wont waste your time too.
So I totally get that education does not do well in a vacuum, but it’s about how deep you get into it and who you share it with.
Whether by design or lethargy, you consistently misconstrue what I have plainly stated.
Mentorship is not done by manual. As such, it follows that it is also not done by "RTFM, noob ! "
A basic framework, as you mentioned with the wings, won’t allow advanced or even basic ACM without being able to land consistently. Tasks, conditions, standards and all that. I’m new to the online aspect of this sim but have been dorking around with it since it was on 5.25 floppy disk; I’ll take a look at some of these wings and see what they have to offer.…but that is only interesting.
“RTFM” is poison- full stop, end of list. If someone wants to respond to a noob question, good on them ! That someone has even loaded and configured this sim is sorta proof positive they are ready to learn.
I’ll watch for what you have mentioned, though, Redshift; just 'cause I ain’t seen it (yet) don’t mean it ain’t out there.