Why Virtual Reality for BMS would improve the experience by order of magnitudes.
-
The avionics question was directed specifically at the poster I quoted; I suspect I disagree with their view but unless its clarified I cannot be sure.
As for touchscreens vs switches, I am sure touchscreens are great for some folks. Until I wish to simulate an F-35 cockpit though, I am not one of those folks.
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
-
Still don’t see the issue. When I have to use the OSBs, I use the mouse. I have never had an issue with that. As for being jumped by enemy fighters, what should I use my mouse for? Emergency Jettison + Missile/Dogfight mode.
-
Agree; MFDs are a nice to have thing, not an essential to have thing. Though Id rather have them than not.
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
-
Heh, in 16 pages, I’m still not exactly sure why there’s arguing.
If BMS added VR support, I assume it wouldn’t be forced on everyone. That’d mean that those that want to use VR can do and those that don’t can leave it turned off. I really don’t see where the issue is and why it has to be one way or the other.
I think this entire thread can be summed up by saying “Support in FBMS would be fantastic and greatly received by those of us with (or getting) HMDs. If you don’t want to use VR, then don’t use it”.
Cheers,
Del.
-
The avionics question was directed specifically at the poster I quoted; I suspect I disagree with their view but unless its clarified I cannot be sure.
As for touchscreens vs switches, I am sure touchscreens are great for some folks. Until I wish to simulate an F-35 cockpit though, I am not one of those folks.
I see, apologies for mis-reading! As for touchscreens, yeah, I agree with you. Nothing beats the tactile feel. In fact, I hate “texting” on modern smartphones…. however, I’ve little skill in electronics or soldering and for some reason, I’m afraid to jump into it. I will, one day… or just but one of the pre-made ones if I hit the jackpot in the lottery. I’ll probably need to start buying tickets though.
Still don’t see the issue. When I have to use the OSBs, I use the mouse. I have never had an issue with that. As for being jumped by enemy fighters, what should I use my mouse for? Emergency Jettison + Missile/Dogfight mode.
True, you can use the mouse. Touchscreen or Cougar MFDs just make this process way easier. See my post above regarding “precision cockpit work” and my challenge of hitting an OSB while moving your head.
Heh, in 16 pages, I’m still not exactly sure why there’s arguing.
If BMS added VR support, I assume it wouldn’t be forced on everyone. That’d mean that those that want to use VR can do and those that don’t can leave it turned off. I really don’t see where the issue is and why it has to be one way or the other.
I think this entire thread can be summed up by saying “Support in FBMS would be fantastic and greatly received by those of us with (or getting) HMDs. If you don’t want to use VR, then don’t use it”.
-
This post is deleted! -
Keep it civil, constructive and relevant to the topic or lose the thread, nobody wants to see your fight.
Just tossing this back out there, since it seems to need repeating.
-
if we have to come in here and moderate it again guys, forum vacations will be handed out.
-
Just tossing this back out there, since it seems to need repeating.
Does it? Seems like civilized discussion to me.
-
I’ll just swing by and say that modern VR support in BMS is something I’m eagerly awaiting, just for that sheer sense of presence and being in the cockpit. TrackIR has nothing on this.
However, BMS as it currently stands is unfit for VR in the first place and must be drastically overhauled to support it properly.
-The renderer is DX9 if I recall correctly, which is a big step up from the original DX7, but I don’t think the Rift or Vive officially support anything under DX11.
They’ll need to overhaul the renderer again, fixing all the issues that prevent having a comfortable stereoscopic VR experience along the way. Hey, Team Fusion managed to pull it off with IL-2: CloD somehow, maybe it can happen for BMS.
-Far more worrisome is the interface itself, which also needs to be overhauled for comfortable VR.
The menus will need to be projected onto a virtual monitor surface like DCS and ED do it, all the little radio messages and such will need to be moved away from the edge of the eye buffers and closer to the center if you’re going to be able to see them (believe it or not, those barrel-distorted eye buffers are largely wasted!), the mouse cursor will probably need to be replaced with a gaze cursor that handles depth properly (again, look at DCS), and then there’s everything the lot of you mentioned about having to consult material outside of the sim itself, particularly if it’s not already on your kneeboard.
It’s going to be a ton of work for sure, but the rewards would be immense, enough to be worth pursuing.
-
It’s going to be a ton of work for sure, but the rewards would be immense, enough to be worth pursuing.
+1,000!! BMS unfit for VR, VR unfit for BMS, but if we can pull this off –- pure awesomeness!
-
So you said, but I was hoping you could expand on that rather than restating it. Perhaps provide examples? Explaining the view instead of (or as well as) sharing it?
Examples? Like when flying in a valley and preparing for a pop-up bombing, in A-G mode and operating the MFD’s, and the RWR wakes up with an enemy plane looking at you from 1 o’clock, and you frantically look over your shoulder while rapidly pressing the A-A button, and hovering your finger above the stores release while trying to figure out if you need to abort and engage?
Anytime things get intense and task loading increases, the limitations of the input system become apparent. And the mouse is out the window VERY quickly.
VR compounds this by blocking view to physical inputs and having too low resolution for the outputs. The resolution is just a technology issue. In five years that may well be no problem anymore. Depending on what kind of VR solutions dominate the market. But it will still block the ability to see external inputs, barring messy camera solutions which at present do nothing but cause problems and nausea.
-
That has nothing to do with VR. You can do all that with VR, same as if you are blindfolded.
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
-
That has nothing to do with VR. You can do all that with VR, same as if you are blindfolded.
Maybe if you have a physical button that you can “feel” for and hover your finger over. Harder to do with a touchscreen. Same as touchtyping… you can do it easily and blindfolded with an ergonomic keyboard and while you can do it on an iPad, the results on the iPad will not be the same as with the keyboard.
-
That has nothing to do with VR. You can do all that with VR, same as if you are blindfolded.
I can’t do any of that blindfolded.
-
Nobody can do that. People stating they can are lying to themself.
-
Ok, but would you guys be interested in a custom flight helmet style mounted VR that allowed you to look under at your cockpit/peripherals like NVGs are used IRL?
-
Ok, but would you guys be interested in a custom flight helmet style mounted VR that allowed you to look under at your cockpit/peripherals like NVGs are used IRL?
No. Nosepeeking is a brutal immersion killer.
What will probably work well is something like Microsoft’s HoloLens augmented reality system, which will allow for showing the aircraft surroundings above the cockpit, and show anything below straight through as if there was nothing there. And no, using a camera on the VR system to overlay is not even remotely the same thing.
-
No. Nosepeeking is a brutal immersion killer.
That makes no sense to me especially if you have a full cockpit. Also “nosepeeking” is exactly what you have to do IRL with NVGs. I’m not talking the current gaps, I talking a completely open bottom.
Just showing for reference because I’m not sure everybody has got this when I threw it out before. Obivously with VR you would fill in the sides and the top, but shoot for the same amount of under space. I also think in the long run helmet mounted VR would be more comfortable despite how long for me a personal limit was not to wear a helmet while flight simming -
That makes no sense to me especially if you have a full cockpit.
That is because you’ve never done it.
Also “nosepeeking” is exactly what you have to do IRL with NVGs. I’m not talking the current gaps, I talking a completely open bottom.
No. It’s not. You don’t see a room around you when you peek out under NVG’s.